HL Deb 18 May 1988 vol 497 cc322-5

2.55 p.m.

Viscount Thurso asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether in view of the high level of drift net catches being landed by the Donegal fishery they are concerned that Scottish salmon are being illegally intercepted on the high seas and whether it is intended to order the fishery protection squadron to take any action to protect Scottish salmon stocks.

The Minister of State, Scottish Office (Lord Sanderson of Bowden)

My Lords, any illegal activity affecting Scottish salmon stocks, wherever it be carried out, is a matter of concern to the Government. As in previous years, fishery protection vessels will be deployed within the Scottish sector of the UK fishery limits with a view to maintaining the effort towards enforcing fisheries legislation at sea with particular problems targeted for special attention. Additionally, aerial surveillance will be undertaken by fixed-wing aircraft and helicopters in order to curb the activities of those who fish illegally.

Viscount Thurso

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his Answer. However, is he aware that illegal fishing is supposed to be taking place as far as 200 miles out on the high seas? Does he agree that the tonnages of salmon being landed in Donegal are probably twice those reported and could account for the whole of the missing Scottish salmon catch?

Lord Sanderson of Bowden

My Lords, that is a fairly wide question. I agree with the noble Viscount that it is each nation's responsibility to protect the fishery within the 200-mile economic zone of that nation—in this case, Ireland. Under international agreements an Irish vessel could be pursued from within our waters if it is caught within our 200-mile economic zone. However, we have no record of that "hot pursuit" process having occurred so far.

As regards catches, I understand that the nominal figure for 1986 was approximately 1,730 tonnes—that is, the Irish figure of landed and reported catch—as opposed to the Scottish figure of 1,270 tonnes.

Lord Campbell of Croy

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that at least two responsible bodies within the Republic of Ireland have drawn attention to damage being caused to stocks of salmon in rivers belonging to other countries? Will the Government raise the matter with the Irish Government?

Lord Sanderson of Bowden

My Lords, I understand the Irish Government commissioned a report, published in November 1987, which dealt with their own salmon fishery problems and the illegal fishing of salmon and its possible impact on stocks and angling opportunities. The report of the Irish Salmon Review Group, issued last year, referred to illegal fishing and made recommendations for additional central measures. However, none of those measures has yet been accepted by the Irish Government with the exception of the weekly close time which they intend to change.

Lady Saltoun of Abernethy

My Lords, do the Irish have a fishery protection squadron and, if so, where does it patrol? In any event, who is responsible for policing the high seas outside the in-shore fishing limits?

Lord Sanderson of Bowden

My Lords, I am sorry if I did not make myself clear. The responsibility lies with the fishery protection service of the nation state concerned up to the 200-mile economic zone. That, of course, includes its own 12 mile in-shore limit. As regards the size of the Irish fishery protection service, yes, it is smaller than our own. However, there are good relationships between our own fishery protection service and the Irish service.

Lord Morris

My Lords, can my noble friend tell me what criteria determine the nationality of a salmon?

Lord Sanderson of Bowden

My Lords, no; I cannot.

Lord Mason of Barnsley

My Lords, is the Minister not aware that the Atlantic Salmon Trust and the Salmon and Trout Association have constantly expressed concern about illegal drift-netting off Ireland and in the Atlantic? Surely much more must be done by Her Majesty's Government if they are going to treat salmon conservation seriously. Secondly, the noble Lord ought to consider banning the nylon monofilament gill net. Thirdly, in view of the large expansion of the grey seal population in Scottish waters—90,000 grey seals are devouring thousands of Atlantic salmon every year—there ought to be a grey seal cull as well. If the Minister took those three positive steps we would be more interested in his positive intent to conserve the salmon.

Lord Sanderson of Bowden

My Lords, I am aware of all three points raised by the noble Lord. However, a seal cull is well wide of this particular Question; no doubt the noble Lord can table a Question for me to answer on the subject. Coming from north of the Border, I agree, of course, over the monofilament net situation.

Lord Kimball

My Lords, without in any way wishing to downcry the damage that is done by the Donegal fishery, will my noble friend bear in mind that 1985 was a dry summer. The toll of salmon taken in nets around the coasts of Great Britain, and also Ireland, was very large indeed. It accounted for the fact that in the autumn of 1985 there were only one-third of the fish there should have been on the spawning grounds—to reproduce themselves. Surely that must be a factor causing the bad spring fishing now.

Lord Sanderson of Bowden

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that information. We are particularly concerned about the returning grilse to Scottish waters. In fact that is a matter which causes us some concern in the whole question of the amount of salmon being taken, as has been indicated by the noble Viscount, Lord Thurso, in his Question.

Lord Grimond

My Lords, I apologise if I misheard the Minister. While he told us that there have been various reports commissioned by the Irish Government, did he actually answer the question as to whether Her Majesty's Government have approached the Irish Government, or had conversations with them, on the problem which is clearly a joint one?

Lord Sanderson of Bowden

My Lords, I think I clearly indicated that there were ongoing discussions between the fishery protection services of both countries. That is the area where we have to look as regards safeguarding stocks. I can assure the noble Lord that as far as enforcement is concerned, dialogue is taking place between my department and the department concerned in Dublin. I can say no more than that.

Lord Moran

My Lords, is the Minister aware that the tagging of smolts has shown that salmon heading for Welsh rivers as well as Scottish—

Noble Lords

Reading!

Lord Moran

—are endangered by the fishery? Does he recall that the Irish report to which he referred pointed out that drift netting off Ireland is putting at risk other nations' stocks? Will he therefore take every opportunity to raise this matter with the Irish Government at ministerial level in Dublin, Brussels and elsewhere?

Lord Sanderson of Bowden

My Lords, I am very well aware of what the noble Lord says about the effect that the over-fishing of salmon stocks can have not only on Welsh rivers but on Scottish, and other rivers for that matter. This is a matter that must be addressed on an international basis.

Lord Carmichael of Kelvingrove

My Lords, will the Minister respond to the statement made by the noble Viscount, Lord Thurso, about the official figures of landings in Ireland and the suggestion that the unofficial figures were much higher? Will he say whether there have been any visible signs that that is having an effect on salmon going back to the rivers in Scotland?

Lord Sanderson of Bowden

My Lords, the noble Lord will realise the difficulty in establishing the correct figures. Therefore, I should not like to speculate on how much greater the actual catch is than the officially registered catch. We are concerned about the effect that it is having on Scottish rivers and we shall look carefully at what is happening not only in Irish territorial waters but within its 200-mile economic zone.