HL Deb 07 December 1988 vol 502 cc569-70

2.56 p.m.

The Earl of Halsbury asked Her Majesty's Government:

Whether they intend to accept the offer of 100 elderly retired Fellows of the Royal Society and of the Fellowship of Engineering to volunteer for exposure to radiation hazards in the event of a nuclear emergency.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Energy (Baroness Hooper)

My Lords, the Government very much appreciate the interest shown by the Royal Society and Fellowship of Engineering volunteers. However the nuclear industry is required as a condition of its operating licences to have detailed emergency plans in place and would be expected to rely on its own well-trained experts to deal with any incident. I understand that the CEGB has declined the offer on that basis.

The Earl of Halsbury

My Lords, do the Government appreciate that the offer was a well-meant morale booster? It was a gesture from the older generation, which started nuclear power, towards the safety of the younger generation, which has a greater chance of being exposed to its hazard. Does the Minister recognise that it is very disappointing to feel that the bureaucracy—and it is no more than that—is full of dismal complacency? It could perfectly well have taken the trouble to take names, addresses and telephone numbers and note the willingness of the individuals in question to go on courses and be trained as a morale booster for their juniors.

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, as I said, the Government very much appreciate the offer which was made. I have no doubt that the commitment and specialised knowledge of the volunteers could be useful in some way in the very unlikely event of an emergency. I understand that it is in that spirit that the Atomic Energy Authority has responded to the gesture.

Lord Zuckerman

My Lords, as one of the potential guinea-pigs perhaps I may ask the Minister whether she would agree that there is an enormous amount of uncertainty about the levels of radiation which are noxious. Will she also agree that the experiment which the elderly Fellows of the Royal Society and the other institutions have said that they would be prepared to undertake might provide some information which would reduce the enormous disparity which now exists between what people believe to be safe and unsafe environmental radiation?

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, I believe that our job in government is to reassure people both as to the unlikelihood of such a situation arising and as to the minimising of any effects. Our first priority must be just that: to minimise the effects of an emergency. The procedures which are in place exist to do just that. Nevertheless, as I have said, the Atomic Energy Authority has, I believe, accepted the offer in the spirit in which it was made.

Lord Grimond

My Lords, is the noble Baroness aware that to some of us this noble gesture is rather alarming? Is she aware that many so called elderly, retired Fellows of the Royal Society are well worth preserving, including at least one who is here today? Personally I would much rather have them than the Mappa Mundi. Does she agree that if elderly guinea-pigs are to be found for that purpose such rather useless guinea-pigs as myself might be more suitable than Fellows of the Royal Society?

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, I do not think that any willing volunteer will be rebuffed by the Government. I fully agree with the noble Lord that there are many Fellows of the Royal Society, both retired and present Fellows, who are well worth preserving.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that what we have to try to achieve is to remove altogether any possible risk of a nuclear war and to do that we might continue exerting pressure on both the United States and the Soviet Union and encourage the co-operation which now exists between our Government, the United States Government and the Government of the Soviet Union via Mr. Gorbachev?

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, the Question does not, I believe, refer to nuclear arms or nuclear war; it relates to the civil uses of nuclear energy.

Lord Peston

My Lords, can the noble Baroness tell me whether I am right in assuming that people are made Fellows of the Royal Society because of their intellectual achievements and achievements in research and not for their ability in practical matters or because they have any common sense? Is it not likely that such people, admirable though the offer seems to be, will be much more of a nuisance than of any use in those circumstances? If we are looking for volunteers for exposure to radiation perhaps younger people—for example one or two junior Ministers—might feel able to come forward.

Baroness Hooper

My Lords, I take the last part of the noble Lord's question as an unfestive remark. Nevertheless, it is true that the first priority in the very unlikely event of such an accident would be for immediate action. That means that emergency workers would have to wear protective equipment, including self-contained breathing apparatus, and they could be subjected to extremes of heat and humidity. They might be required to undertake very active service. It is for that reason that the emergency plans that are in place concentrate on experts, in effect, in fire fighting.