HL Deb 07 December 1988 vol 502 cc570-3

3 p.m.

The Earl of Halsbury asked Her Majesty's Government:

When they will reach a decision on the planned merger of the Westminster Hospital and St. Stephen's Hospital onto a single site in Fulham.

The noble Earl said: In asking this Question I draw your Lordships' attention to a drafting error at the end: "in Fulham" should read "facing the Fulham Road".

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State is currently considering the proposal to build a new teaching hospital on the site of St. Stephen's Hospital in Fulham and to close the Westminster, Westminster Children's, St. Mary Abbott's and West London Hospitals. He is examining the implications for patients and giving a thorough assessment to all aspects of the scheme, including financial issues. A decision will be announced when this consideration is complete. I regret that I cannot give a date today.

The Earl of Halsbury

My Lords, does the noble Earl realise that that was a very disappointing Answer from the standpoint of the doctors in the hospitals concerned? Quite recently I have had letters on this matter from a consultant at Westminster and a consultant at St. Stephen's. From a retired consultant from St. Mary Abbott's, I also received a Christmas card on which were written the words: Poor St. Stephen's! Nothing is being maintained. Nobody knows whether it is going to be pulled down tomorrow or not. Morale is at a very low ebb. The junior hospital doctors, I am told—I hope that the Minister is aware of this—are on contract only until 31st December this year. They do not know what employment they will get. Does the Minister think that this is the way to run a National Health Service—in a state of perpetual indecision?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, I take seriously the remarks and comments of the noble Earl, Lord Halsbury. At the same time I say unequivocally that the Department of Health is well aware of the need to make a decision as soon as possible. Any change has major implications for patients and staff. We want to keep to a minimum the uncertainty for everyone involved but this is a major scheme and it is important that it should be carefully considered.

Lord Ennals

My Lords, does the noble Earl accept that uncertainty is not a good reason for taking the wrong decision? Does he further accept that there is tremendous opposition in Westminster—and that includes a petition bearing the signatures of over 100,000 people—to this proposal for the closure of four hospitals, including the major hospitals of Westminster and Westminster Children's which are internationally famous? Moreover, does he accept that there is tremendous opposition to the proposal to move to a thoroughly unsatisfactory and indeed dangerous site for those wishing to have emergency treatment in what would be a very large hospital? Who in fact supports this unwanted, unsatisfactory and expensive project?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State is considering all the views given about the proposals. Your Lordships will be aware that although the media concentrate on opposition to them, there is also very considerable support for the scheme—for example, from the medical executive committee of the Westminster and Westminster Children's Hospitals, from the Riverside district medical committee and from the Charing Cross and Westminster Medical School.

Baroness Strange

My Lords, is my noble friend aware how grateful I and my noble relatives were for the proximity of the Westminster Hospital casualty unit when this morning we drove a Portuguese lady there from Parliament Square, where she had been knocked down by a bus? Does he not consider that the six traffic-jam packed miles to Fulham might be very inconvenient for casualties?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, obviously I am very pleased to take my noble friend's point, as mentioned in the first part of her question. However, I should also like to point out that there is always St. Thomas's Hospital just across the River Thames.

Lord Northfield

My Lords, will the Government be sure to bear in mind two factors that have been mentioned in this House before? First, not very long ago, in the time of the chairman of the governors, the noble Lord, Lord Reigate, Westminster Hospital spent a lot of money on a new wing which is, so to speak, hardly out of date or needing replacement. Secondly, will they bear in mind the degree of local protest in the St. Stephen's area at the congestion that this huge hospital is bound to create by undue concentration in that part of London?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, the brief and scope of the examination that is currently being undertaken by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State are very intense and very profound. He will certainly take into account every aspect of this proposal.

Lord Auckland

My Lords, while in no way wishing to prejudge the results of the inquiry, is my noble friend aware that I know Fulham quite well and that the road journey from Westminster to Fulham, in the event of a major casualty exercise, can be very long and congested? Will his department consult with the Department of Transport as to the traffic problems between Westminster and Fulham before a decision is finally taken?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, I rather thought that I had already given a reply to that question. I say again that although Fulham is some way off, it is the responsibility of the ambulance driver and his decision. Once again I repeat that St. Thomas's is only a minute from your Lordships' House or the Palace of Westminster.

Baroness Hylton-Foster

My Lords, in order to keep the record straight, will the noble Earl accept that although St. Stephen's Hospital is in the Fulham Road, it is in fact in the Royal Borough of Kensington and Chelsea?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, that may be the case but once again I am sure that that is well understood and perceived by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State.

Lord Cocks of Hartcliffe

My Lords, would the noble Earl care to reflect on the remarks of his colleague in another place, the Minister for Roads and Traffic, who recently said that a small number of people sitting down on Westminster Bridge could bring traffic in the whole of central London to a standstill? Does not this negate his remarks about St. Thomas's Hospital?

The Earl of Arran

My Lords, I think we are doing a considerable disservice to St. Thomas's Hospital. Obviously it is hoped that nothing of the magnitude proposed by the noble Lord will happen at the Palace of Westminster. If so, however, there is St. Thomas's and there is also the journey to Fulham.

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