Falkland Islands: Fish Conservation (Hansard, 18 June 1985)

§ The Earl of Onslow
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Baroness Young)
My Lords, we continue to work actively and urgently for the establishment of a multilaterally-based fisheries conservation and management regime around the Falkland Islands.

§ The Earl of Onslow
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that I make no apologies for raising this matter yet again so shortly after it was last raised, because we have seen nothing but articles and television programmes underlining the depredation of the fisheries regimes in the South Atlantic, around both South Georgia and the Falkland Islands? Can my noble friend tell us, first, with whom and how often they are discussing this question? Secondly, what happens when inevitably nothing happens and the fish stocks are exhausted? Thirdly, can my noble friend comment on the reported fact that the squid have left the Falkland Islands' fisheries six weeks early, and could this be due to extra squid-jigging?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I can assure my noble friend that we are actively pursuing the matter of a mutilateral approach, but it would not be helpful to go into detail while contacts are taking place. On my noble friend's second supplementary question about squid, we are aware of reports that squid have disappeared from Falkland waters earlier than usual. However, information which we have received very recently from the Falkland Islands Government's fishery observer indicates that fishing for the species of squid found in Falklands' waters is continuing.

§ Lord Shackleton
My Lords, will the noble Baroness herself return to the Falkland Islands, where she is a popular figure, and, as some of us have done recently, fly out and look at the enormous number of ships in those waters? Some of them sail into Falklands' waters and fly the flag of convenience—the Union Jack—whether they are Russian or any other nationality, thus recognising our right to be there. The whole House would support the noble Baroness in her efforts to open any sensible talks with the Argentine, which they have persistently spurned. Will the noble Baroness recognise that there is a limit to the time that we should spend attempting what may never be achieved and, therefore, will she consider going ahead unilaterally, and declaring the failure of other countries to back us in this matter?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I fully appreciate the concern of the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, who has taken such a very great interest in this matter. I should like to assure him that our aim is the establishment of a really effective conservation and management regime in the South-West Atlantic, for all the reasons that he has given. That means working for the widest possible measure of international acceptance and participation.

§ Lord Melchett
My Lords, does the noble Baroness not recognise that all the experts who have looked at this matter say that, by the time the Government have got round to reaching a multilateral agreement, if such agreement is possible at all, there will be no fish stocks left to conserve or economically manage? Do not the Government have to take immediate unilateral action to prevent what is currently a major ecological disaster and a major economic disaster for this country and the Falkland islanders?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, the first point which the noble Lord makes is of course hypothetical. However, as regards a unilateral declaration of such a limit we must be realistic and face the fact that there is a dispute about sovereignty in the area.

§ Lord Boyd-Carpenter
My Lords, will my noble friend indicate that the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, is one which the Government accept; namely, that in the regrettable absence of a multilateral agreement, Her Majesty's Government do not rule out acting unilaterally?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, as I am sure my noble friend will be the first to appreciate, we are still negotiating about a multilateral regime. I think that it would be quite improper for me to comment on what is still a hypothetical situation.

§ Lord Parry
My Lords, does the noble Baroness agree that there is a certain heavy irony in the fact that, while as a House we are so deeply and rightly concerned to set up a proper ecological policy in relation to the Falklands, our own indigenous fishing industry has been destroyed by our failure to do so in relation to neighbouring European countries?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I think that the noble Lord would agree that in fact that is another Question.

§ Lord Renton
My Lords, in speaking about multilateral discussions my noble friend has used two geographical expressions: "around the Falklands" and "in the South-West Atlantic". Will my noble friend give your Lordships an undertaking that in using each of those expressions she means the widest possible area for the protection of the fishery interests not only of this country but also of the world?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, in using those expressions I have been talking about what is generally accepted as a 200-mile fishing limit around the Falkland Islands. However, the term "the South-West Atlantic" can also be used to cover South Georgia, where the fishing is already covered by the 1980 Convention for the Conservation of Antarctic Marine Living Resources.

§ Lord Balfour of Inchrye
My Lords, will my noble friend consider telling the various parties that a time limit must be set for these negotiations? If we wish, we can make it a reasonable one, but there must be a time limit on all those concerned.

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I note the point that my noble friend makes on this matter.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, I think that the noble Baroness is in some difficulty here, because the talks are proceeding. However, can she tell the House whether in her view the talks are proceeding satisfactorily? Secondly, as to the conservation and management regime, can the noble Baroness tell the House what area of sea is involved here? Does it include the waters around the Falklands alone, or does it extend beyond to South Georgia? Thirdly, is the noble Baroness confident that Her Majesty's Government and any other governments involved will be able to enforce the rules that are inherent in the creation of a regime of this kind?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I do not want to go into the details of this sensitive matter of the discussions on a multilateral regime, except to reiterate the importance and the urgency which the Government attach to this measure. In fact, we are talking about the waters around the Falkland Islands, to which on an earlier occasion your Lordships have addressed many questions, particularly relating to the number of ships already fishing there. On the last point that the noble Lord raised, I would refer him to the Report of the House of Commons Select Committee on Foreign Affairs, published in December 1984, which makes the point that enforcement and policing of a unilaterally declared EFL would raise practical and political problems.

§ Lord Mowbray and Stourton
My Lords, is it not wrong to equate South Georgia with the Falklands, calling it a dependency? As the noble Lord, Lord Shackleton, has often pointed out, our title with South Georgia is totally different?

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I think that my noble friend would accept that that is a somewhat wider question. I referred to South Georgia only in relation to fishing matters.

§ The Earl of Onslow
My Lords, when my noble friend's department continues the multilateral negotiations will it be possible to emphasise to the negotiators the fact that your Lordships' House and another place feel very strongly indeed that something should be done to protect both the economies and the ecology of the South Atlantic?

§ Baroness Young
Yes, my Lords, my right honourable and learned friend will of course study what has been said in your Lordships' House, which I am quite sure will be read with great interest by those in the Falkland Islands. I hope that they will appreciate the urgency and importance that we attach to achieving a resolution of this matter.

§ Lord Shackleton
My Lords, while I accept the sincerity and activity of the noble Baroness, Lady Young, I must say that she referred to South Georgia. Any question of fishing limits in that part of the world must also include the South Sandwich Islands and the Shag Rocks.

§ Baroness Young
My Lords, I note what the noble Lord says.