HL Deb 18 June 1985 vol 465 cc136-8

3.10 p.m.

Baroness Nicol

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government when they will invite the appropriate public health authority to examine the standards of hygiene for Members of both Houses and staff in the Palace of Westminster and its associated buildings.

The Minister of State, Department of the Environment (Lord Elton)

My Lords, as a result of the unfortunate incident in the Norman Shaw building on 4th June, an inspector of the Health and Safety Executive has already visited the Parliamentary Works Office. She did so on 6th June and approved the action which that office had taken, and was proposing to take.

Baroness Nicol

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that encouraging reply. Will he assure the House that the standards which are now to be applied, hopefully, in the Norman Shaw building will also be applied throughout the Palace of Westminster?

Lord Elton

My Lords, the health of Members of both Houses of Parliament and their staff, officials, and servants will always be a matter of the highest priority.

Lord Avebury

My Lords, under what authority would a person have a right of legal action if he or she was poisoned by the water supply in the Palace of Westminster?

Lord Elton

My Lords, this would be a matter to be decided under the Crown immunities provisions, which are at present under review.

Baroness Masham of Ilton

My Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he saw in The Times today that in New Zealand's Parliament Buildings legionella bacteria had been found? May I ask the noble Lord whether the Palace of Westminster has been checked for legionnaires' disease, especially in the air conditioning system?

Lord Elton

My Lords, I have had a cutting from the Daily Telegraph brought to my attention. As your Lordships will know, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Health and Social Security set up an inquiry into the recent outbreak of this disease in Staffordshire. Your Lordships will also know that they have located the source of the infection, which started in the outpatients' department of the hospital in Staffordshire. It is highly unlikely that any similar outbreak could occur, but naturally we must see that all necessary precautions are taken. I will draw the concern of the noble Baroness to the attention of the House authorities.

Lord Winstanley

My Lords, in view of the apparent structural ambiguity contained in the Question, would the noble Lord make it clear that the anxiety is not about the standards of hygiene of the Members of the two Houses but of the fabric of the building and of the facilities, and that it is those things which are important in relation to very real hazards such as legionnaires' disease?

Lord Elton

My Lords, your Lordships might be concerned with both, but I confirm that the latter was the subject of my Answer.

Lord Bottomley

My Lords, as a matter of comfort to noble Lords present, in another place there is an insurance which covers accidents or incidents similar to that which happened at the Norman Shaw building. I believe that the same applies to noble Lords, too.

A noble Lord

"Does the noble Lord know?".

Lord Elton

My Lords, now he does.

Baroness Darcy (de Knayth)

My Lords, is the Minister aware that the disabled persons' loo was happily very well equipped with a tap labelled "Drinking Water", but that the label has been removed in the last few days?

Lord Elton

My Lords, the label is in the process of being reprinted.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, the noble Lord gave a somewhat ambivalent reply to the supplementary question of my noble friend Lord Bottomley when he said that he now knows that there is an insurance cover. Did he know before this? Is he confirming that he knew before, or that he has just learned it? Or is he sufficiently trusting of my noble friend that he accepts what he says?

Lord Elton

My Lords, I now understand that there is such a scheme but I did not understand so before. Perhaps the noble Lord would be kind enough to give me the terms under which I can join it.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, that reply is really not good enough. The noble Lord says that he now understands it. Is he saying to the House that there is insurance cover for the sort of illness or accident that might happen to a Member of this House?

Lord Elton

My Lords, no I did not know. I thought that the noble Lord was tempting me to say that I did not give credence to what his noble friend had said, and that is why I answered in the terms I did to his question. I was not aware of such a scheme, and I shall certainly inquire about it to inform myself. If the noble Lord feels that I ought to inquire in a particular way, or make information available in a particular way, I shall be interested to hear from him.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, we ale all grateful to the noble Lord for saying that he will make those inquiries, but is he aware that every noble Lord present would be grateful if he were to let the House know the result of his inquiries?

Lord Elton

My Lords, I shall put the answer to my inquiries in your Lordships' Library.

Lord Nugent of Guildford

My Lords, could my noble friend tell the House whether these dangers include possible injury at the Box?

Lord Elton

My Lords, I hope they do.

Lord Bottomley

My Lords, my noble friend Lord Tonypandy was chairman of a commission in the House of Commons of which I was a member. It was agreed then that there should be insurance cover, and I believe that the Lords followed that practice.

Lord Elton

My Lords, if that was a question, I am grateful for the answer it contained.

Lord Stallard

My Lords, may I bring the noble Lord back to the supplementary question of the noble Lord, Lord Avebury? In his reply the noble Lord seemed to infer that Norman Shaw Court is now deemed part of the Palace of Westminster. When was that decided, and how?

Lord Elton

My Lords, it has been a part of the Crown estates since before my cognition, so I cannot say when it started.