HL Deb 04 June 1985 vol 464 cc608-10

3 p.m.

Viscount Mersey

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government what is the total value of all applications received so far this year for awards under the Business Sponsorship Incentive Scheme for the Arts.

The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster and Minister for the Arts (The Earl of Gowrie)

My Lords, the total value of applications received since 1st January 1985 for awards under the Business Sponsorship Incentive Scheme is £1 million. This represents an inflow of £2.8 million of new sponsorship; or £3.8 million to arts funding generally.

Viscount Mersey

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that very encouraging reply. I wonder whether he can enlighten me on the position of trade unions? Do they become eligible under this scheme?

The Earl of Gowrie

My Lords, I have considered representations made about the eligibility of trade unions. I am happy to accept applications from trade unions and other professional associations provided that these are for genuine sponsorship and not patronage; that is to say, a payment to an arts organisation for the purposes of promoting the name, product or services of the sponsor. We are thoroughly in favour of patronage but this scheme pertains to sponsorship.

Lord Strabolgi

My Lords, as the scheme has been so successful—for which I congratulate the noble Earl—may I ask whether he is aware that the finance will probably run dry by September? Will he consider earmarking further funds now as a help to potential sponsors who are planning sponsorships at the moment as it is difficult for them to have to wait until next April to know whether or not they are going to get support?

The Earl of Gowrie

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, for his generous tribute. I have no intention of jeopardising the success of the scheme.

Lord Strabolgi

My Lords, the noble Earl may not be aware that I was trying to be helpful. I was not asking him to jeopardise the scheme. I was asking him to give the scheme another nudge by earmarking further funds now so that everybody knows where they are.

The Earl of Gowrie

My Lords, I was aware that the noble Lord was trying to be helpful; and so was I, which was why I answered in the way that I did.

Lord Annan

My Lords, would the noble Earl agree that it is for each institution in the field of the arts or the performing arts to seek sponsorship and support from the private sector as best it may? Would he not agree that healthy competition between institutions is quite a favourable thing, and that each institution should try to obtain or persuade certain people who have golden fingers to join their board or their company?

The Earl of Gowrie

My Lords, I am very much in favour of competition. I was, however, worried about the fact that there were some criticisms of the scheme that it went to those who were especially adept at sponsorship or had been involved previously; and therefore from the 1st April we now have pound for pound matching arrangements for first-time sponsors giving £1,000 or more.

Lord Harmar-Nicholls

My Lords, am I to understand that the helpful reply that the noble Earl gave to the noble Lord, Lord Strabolgi, means that it is likely that the extra help will be forthcoming to avoid the ending of the scheme which has had a very excellent beginning? Is that what it means?

The Earl of Gowrie

My Lords, what it means is that there are no shortages of funds at the moment, and I do not anticipate the funds running out.

Lord Barnett

My Lords, may I, too, congratulate the noble Earl on this scheme? That is rare, as he appreciates. With his other Treasury hat on would he care to give an assurance to the House that none of these funds will be taken into account when the Treasury come to make allocations to the arts?

The Earl of Gowrie

My Lords, it is a very curious and rare event on two counts: for the noble Lord to congratulate me; but, on the other hand, to make a muddle about arrangements between spending Ministers and the Treasury. He has succeeded in doing both in one day.

Lord Barnett

My Lords, with respect, I asked a straightforward question and I am asking the noble Earl for that assurance. That is all.

The Earl of Gowrie

My Lords, obviously any assurances involving public expenditure—as the noble Lord knows very well and better than most people in this House—are heavily qualified. I am, however, confident that this scheme is safe.

Viscount Mersey

My Lords, if any one new arts organisation attracts more than one new sponsor a year is it eligible for more than one award?

The Earl of Gowrie

My Lords, I think at the moment it would be only fair to those who are coming forward in large numbers to distribute awards evenly; but certainly if there were any shortage of applications I would consider that point.

Lord Grimond

My Lords, I think a slightly delphic reply was given by the noble Earl. Am I right in thinking that the Treasury or the Government have given assurance to universities that if they raise money from companies, and so forth, this will not be deducted from their grants? Is this the case with the arts?

The Earl of Gowrie

My Lords, I think the issue of universities and their relationship with private funding organisations is very wide of my scheme for the arts. Therefore I do not feel that I can answer the noble Lord, Lord Grimond, on that. As to my answers being delphic. I have not tried to be delphic. I have tried to be succinct. I am confident about the scheme. I welcome the welcome that it has had and I have no intention of seeing it put in jeopardy.