§ 2.43 p.m.
§ Lord O'Neill of the MaineMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will consider giving a more golden colour to the pound coin, so that it ceases to look silver in artificial light.
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, this was considered before the £1 coin was selected. Unfortunately, additions to make the coin more yellow also reduce its tarnish resistance.
§ Lord O'Neill of the MaineMy Lords, I thank the noble Lord for that reply. May I ask him whether he appreciates that the Australians, whose coinage does not differ all that much from ours, have produced a golden dollar (which I now have in my hand) which is easily distinguishable from the rest of their coinage? It seems a pity that we did not follow in their footsteps.
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraI must admit, my Lords, that that is the first I have seen of the Australian coinage, including the Australian golden dollar. The reason why we chose this mix of alloys to make the coin—and this was very carefully considered before the choice was made—was that, unlike the old threepenny bit which was more yellow in colour, the new coin would not tarnish. With handling over a period of time, the coin will take on a more matt, greenish-yellow colour.
§ Viscount Massereene and FerrardMy Lords, is my noble friend aware that, apart from the fact that I asked a similar Question about two or three months ago, we had a very good debate just before the House rose for Christmas in which, as far as I can remember, eight of the 10 speakers were completely against this coin and even the bankers who spoke were not particularly in favour of it? If I may ask a further supplementary question—if my noble friend the Chief Whip does not want me to (which I gather from his turning round) I shall sit down.
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, I am well aware that we had an interesting debate, during which I was present thoughout. However, I must draw the noble Viscount's attention to the Question on the Order Paper, which is about the colour of the coin.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, does the noble Lord accept that I believe that the noble Lord, Lord O'Neill, has a very good point? I hope he will consider further what the noble Lord said. Further, does the Minister agree that it is not only the colour of the money that counts, but its value?
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonCan the noble Lord say exactly what the Government are going to do about the catastrophic drop in the value of the pound abroad—
§ Lord Stoddart of Swindon—and the savage increase of 2 per cent. in interest rates today?
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonWill he say what effect that 2 per cent. increase will have on our economy, and on local government in particular?
§ The Minister of State, Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (Lord Belstead)My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend the Leader of the House, I think that when we get to the moment when neither I nor the noble Lord, Lord Stoddart of Swindon, can be heard perhaps there is something wrong, and maybe the noble Lord is a little off the point of the original Question.
§ Lord CottesloeMy Lords, does the Minister agree that the real requirement now is not for a £1 coin but for a £2 or even £3 coin?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, that is another Question altogether. I shall certainly draw the attention of my right honourable friend to that point.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, on a point of order, I asked two questions. Even if the noble Lord the Deputy Leader of the House feels that my second question was out of order, my first certainly was not, and I should be obliged to have a reply.
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, I wonder whether the noble Lord would remind me of the point of his first supplementary question.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonYes, indeed, my Lords. I was saying that the noble Lord, Lord O'Neill, had a very good point and that I hoped that, in view of what he said, the Minister would reconsider his Answer.
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, I cannot reconsider my Answer. As I said, a great deal of consideration went into choosing the material for the new coin, and I hope that I have given an explanation of why that choice was made.
Lord Wallace of CoslanyMy Lords, when the noble Lord said that with the passage of time the £1 coin would become a greenish-yellow colour, are we to infer that it will become mouldy? Secondly, the noble Lord, Lord O'Neill, who put the original Question, is quite right, but he omitted one point.
§ Lord DenhamQuestion!
Lord Wallace of CoslanyMy Lords, should we not be considering, in addition to the problem of artificial light, those who have poor eyesight—I do not mean blind people—who will therefore have a job in identifying this coin?
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, I am afraid I do not know exactly what the greenish-yellow colour that the coin will take on in time will look like until it comes about. As regards the problems of the blind, I understand that before the coin was introduced organisations for the blind were fully consulted, and the size, thickness and shape of the coin should help them.
§ Lady KinlossMy Lords, may I ask the Minister whether he is aware of two incidents that occurred in public houses in Yorkshire? In the first, two 5p pieces stuck together and passed as a £1 coin. In the other, what was thought to be a £1 coin was given in payment and only afterwards was it discovered to be made of lead.
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, I was not aware of those two instances. All I can say is that the material that is being used is extremely difficult to forge. Certainly any vending machine will readily reject a fake.
§ Lord Brabazon of TaraMy Lords, as I said to my noble friend before, it was the first I had seen of the Australian dollar.