§ Lord Hunter of NewingtonMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they intend to alter the method of payment to the pharmaceutical industry for drugs supplied to the National Health Service.
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, the Government have on several occasions endorsed the non-statutory Pharmaceutical Price Regulation Scheme as the preferred method of controlling the prices of medicines in the National Health Service.
§ Lord Hunter of NewingtonMy Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply, brief though it is. I ask him two supplementary questions. First, recognising that 50 per cent. of general practitioner costs are for pharmaceuticals, does he consider that the Binder Hamlyn Report should have been published, and why is there this indecent haste about a drug list? Secondly, does he believe that it will be possible for the industry to advertise unlisted drugs to National Health Service doctors?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, with regard to the noble Lord's first supplementary which referred to the Binder Hamlyn Report, I can add no more to the comment made to the House by my noble friend Lord Glenarthur on 4th November 1984. On the noble Lord's second point, I do not know what the regulations will contain. I do not see why the drugs that are not on the limited list cannot be advertised to doctors.
§ Lord EnnalsMy Lords, is the Minister aware that the Secretary of State, by his constant changes in the Pharmaceutical Price Regulation Scheme, by his peremptory cuts in the drugs bill and now by his proposal, as referred to by the noble Lord, to introduce a limited list of drugs for prescribing by GPs, is threatening the research basis of the pharmaceutical industry in this country and has already deterred significant inward investment and damaged the export prospects of one of the most important and successful industries in Britain today?
The Earl of CaithnessNo, my Lords, I cannot agree with the noble Lord. The final limited list, as he knows, is not yet complete because discussions are still taking place on the present list, but I gather that it is about 0.4 per cent. of worldwide drugs. I do not think that that will affect research in any way.
§ Lord GrimondMy Lords, will the Minister take this opportunity to clear up what I believe to be a misapprehension? Is he aware that there appear to be some people now in receipt of free drugs who are frightened that the Government intend either to deny them those drugs or to make them pay for them? Am I right in thinking that there is no such intention on the part of the Government?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, we have had a very good discussion on the limited list drugs. While I should like to answer the noble Lord, I think he is taking us wide of the Question on the Order Paper. His noble colleague, the noble Lord, Lord Kilmarnock, had a Question down on 15th January and also has an Unstarred Question on this specific point set down for 6th February.
§ Lord NorthfieldMy Lords, the drug industry is very sore at the unilateral actions of the Minister in recent months. In the case of the forthcoming discussions which the Minister proposes to hold about reducing profits to drug companies under the price regulation scheme, will the Minister give an assurance that on this occasion there will be full consultation with the industry rather than a unilateral decision? Secondly, will he assure us that the cost of research, which up to now has been funded under the agreement concerning the PPRS, will be taken into account?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, I can assure the noble Lord not only that there will be consultation but that there has been consultation.
§ Lord KilmarnockMy Lords, can the noble Earl say whether or not it is the Government's intention to restrict the profit margin of the pharmaceutical industry to that normally applied for other Government contractors? If that is the case, can he say whether the Government have taken into account the industry's representations on the whole question of quality control?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, of course the Government take into account all matters raised. As the noble Lord might be aware, the report of the Review Board for Government Contracts, which was published in March 1984, recommended a return of 16.9 per cent. on historic capital employed for companies with non-competitive Government contracts. The return for the pharmaceutical industry is 21 per cent.
§ Lord AveburyMy Lords, is it the Government's intention to extend the restricted list of drugs to the prison medical service? If it is, can the noble Earl tell the House whether the prescribing of paraldehyde by prison medical officers will be allowed to continue?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, I am afraid that I missed the first part of the noble Lord's supplementary question.
§ Lord AveburyMy Lords, is it the Government's intention to extend the use of this restricted list of drugs to the prison medical service as well as to general practitioners? If it is, can the noble Earl say whether 443 the practice of prescribing paraldehyde by prison medical officers will be allowed to continue?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, again, I am afraid that the noble Lord is taking us wide of the Question on the Order Paper—which was my reply to the noble Lord, Lord Grimond.
§ Lord Hunter of NewingtonMy Lords, can the Minister tell the House whether the Government are publishing a list of drugs which may be used in the National Health Service, or whether they are publishing a list, as has been reported in the newspapers, of drugs which may not be used in the National Health Service?
The Earl of CaithnessMy Lords, again, I am afraid that we go back to the limited list. Until discussions are completed, which they will be at the end of this month, I cannot help the noble Lord further.
§ Lord EnnalsMy Lords, is the noble Earl aware that I have not been pressing him on the limited list because there is an Unstarred Question down on that for, I believe, next week? However, I want to press him and ask whether he is aware of the seriousness of the situation? Is he aware that I can produce evidence not only of inward investment that is not now proceeding, but also of inward investment that has been cancelled by the drug industry, which is deeply concerned at the present situation? Does the Minister comprehend the importance of what is now happening as a result of these cutbacks?
The Earl of CaithnessIndeed, my Lords, we are concerned that the drug industry does not suffer. It is for that reason that we have held and will continue to hold negotiations with it.