Heathrow Underground Station: Luggage (Hansard, 28 January 1985)

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, the details of these arrangements are the responsibility of London Regional Transport. Having seen them for myself, I am reasonably satisfied that they are appropriate in the circumstances. LRT plan to introduce a new ticketing system for the Underground as a whole over the next few years and I understand that this will remove the need at Heathrow for tickets to be shown at the barrier, which will make for easier access. But LRT do not intend to allow airport trolleys on to the platforms.

§ Lord Orr-Ewing
My Lords, is it true that now nearly 6 million travellers journey to and from London Airport by the Underground? Is my noble friend aware of whether the authorities are paying sufficient attention to the need to reduce the hassle, the frustrations, the noise and the delays on the ground before one gets into the air? Would he draw their attention to the fact that the Swiss have long used trolleys which can be used up and down escalators with safety, speed and ease, and that this design has some merit where an escalator is part of the travellers' normal facilities?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I shall certainly take note of what my noble friend has said. However, I can say that LRT have no intention at the moment of allowing trolleys on to the platforms. The reasons for this are, first, that there is always a danger of their falling on to the line. The difference between here and Zurich is that Zurich has overhead power, whereas on the London Underground system there is a four-rail system. The other reason concerns the nature of the Underground system itself. The great attraction is that it gives ready access to all parts of London, and in the centre it becomes very busy. If passengers were allowed to enter the system with more luggage than they could readily handle, there could be difficulties for themselves and other passengers, and delays to the system, when they are getting off. I also understand that LRT encourage such passengers to use the air-bus services which allow time for luggage to be unloaded at the destination.

§ Lord Jenkins of Putney
My Lords, is the noble Lord the Minister aware that what his noble friend has asked and said is a reflection of the fact that already 447 too many people and too many aircraft use Heathrow? Will he bear this in mind in considering any development of airport facilities in the future?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, that is another Question. However, as the noble Lord will know, consideration is at the moment being given to the inspector's report.

§ Baroness Burton of Coventry
My Lords, is the noble Lord the Minister aware that for many years we have had discussion on these matters without receiving any satisfaction from the Government of the day? May I ask him whether he realises that escalators are not the slightest use to passengers with luggage and that lifts are necessary? Furthermore, having seen how trolleys are conveyed at Frankfurt, where they can be taken down the escalators, and where I have not seen passengers throw trolleys on the lines in the way of the trains, I wonder whether it is not possible for such facilities to be looked at for Heathrow.

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, it is certainly possible that they could be looked at; but I very much doubt whether the result of looking at it would be any different from what I have already said.

§ Baroness Gardner of Parkes
My Lords, is my noble friend aware that some passengers arriving late at Heathrow due to delayed flights have no opportunity of using the air-bus? They are obliged to use the Tube only, as the bus services stop quite early, at about 10 o'clock. Is the noble Lord also aware that in using the Tube, even if passengers manage to get on at Heathrow, there is no way whatsoever of their getting off without inconvenience?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I am afraid that I was not aware of the time that the bus system closed down. However, on the other point, I know that LRT are trying to do something about arrangements at stations in central London; but of course it would be inordinately expensive if we were to try to redesign the whole of the Underground system.

§ Lord Underhill
My Lords, is the noble Lord the Minister aware that there is widespread concern about the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Orr-Ewing? Those of us who use the Tube service to Heathrow know this only too well. Would the noble Lord not also agree that it was excellent foresight and planning by the airports authority, the GLC and the former London Transport Executive in proceeding with the extension of the Underground into the fourth terminal so that the Tube will be ready when the fourth terminal comes into operation? However, can he say whether improved arrangements for the handling of luggage will be carried out for the extension of the Underground to the fourth terminal?

§ Lord Brabazon of Tara
My Lords, I certainly agree with the noble Lord that it is good that the Underground service is going to be extended to Terminal 4. I understand that at that terminal there will be lifts in operation and that the access to the 448 station will be on a gentle slope. There will be no escalators, but I am afraid that trolleys will still not be allowed on the platform.