Neighbourhood Watch Schemes (Hansard, 28 January 1985)

§ Baroness Sharples
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

§ The Minister of State, Home Office (Lord Elton)
My Lords, progress has been made since I answered a similar Question from the noble Baroness in November 1983. The Metropolitan Police and 28 other police forces in England and Wales and three in Scotland are now operating neighbourhood watch schemes, under that or other names, and a further two are planning to do so. Although precise details are not held centrally, I understand that there are at present some 3,000 individual schemes in existence around the country.

§ Baroness Sharples
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that extremely encouraging reply as to the situation since I last asked about this at the end of 1983. Can he confirm that a number of the schemes are not only in cities? Can he also say how many police are involved in the schemes and how many police would be involved in combating crime if the schemes did not exist?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the schemes exist in a wide variety of environments. I believe that my noble friend is right to infer that they reduce the calls on the police force in ordinary policing, as an evaluation of the Kingsdown scheme in Bristol showed a drop in overall crime of 22 per cent. However, I cannot give the detailed figures for which my noble friend asks.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, given the importance of this development, can the noble Lord obtain some rather more accurate statistics than those he now has? In his reply to the noble Baroness he said that there were some 3,000 individual schemes. Is it not important that his department should be fully apprised of the details of these schemes so as to enable him to give more accurate answers to the House?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, I appreciate what the noble Lord is saying. However, I am not sure that I can entirely accept it, because these are operational matters for the chief officers of the police forces concerned. I can say that in London, where the Home Secretary is the police authority, there are over 1,150 schemes in existence. But to be more precise than the round figure I have given for the rest of the country would, I think, be misleading at the present stage.

§ Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos
My Lords, the noble Lord said that these are operational matters for the chief officers concerned, but, with great respect, they are matters of great interest to the country as a whole and certainly should be of concern to his department. I ask him seriously, on behalf of the House, whether he will consult his right honourable and learned friend in order to obtain more accurate information about these schemes, not only in London but also in the country at large?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, I am sure that I can oblige the noble Lord and put a more accurate figure in the Library.

§ Lord Mowbray and Stourton
My Lords, is not my noble friend aware that back in 1936 the late Lord Willingdon, and another gentleman started a watch scheme of this kind which developed into what probably is now the biggest security company in the country? If we were to compare the night watch schemes which that company now operates commercially throughout the country, they would make the few thousand watch schemes which we are talking about pale into insignificance. I should like to have it confirmed by my noble friend that the number of group patrols being carried out are of enormous help to the police.

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, we are not discussing patrolling, which is done by the police, except on private premises, to which my noble friend refers. We are talking about arrangements whereby local residents in a particular area keep an eye open for anything unusual or amiss and, if necessary, arrange swiftly to inform the police, and also very often mark their property with the local post code.

§ Lord Avebury
My Lords, if the Minister can give figures for Bristol, which apparently show a very spectacular reduction in the level of crime in that city, surely he must be able to collect the equivalent kind of statistics from the metropolis, where his right honourable friend is the police authority. Does he not think that it is his obligation to do so, if the savings in police time and the reduction in public expenditure on combating crime are anything like as remarkable as they have proved to be in Bristol?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, the figure that the noble Lord, Lord Cledwyn, asked me to give was a figure for the number of schemes. The figure to which the noble Lord, Lord Avebury, refers is a figure for the supposed reduction in crime. The latter is much more difficult to arrive at. But the Home Office does, of course, keep an eye on the direction in which this method is going to see whether it should be further encouraged.

Lord Morris
My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether there has been any increase in police—Metropolitan or otherwise—or, indeed, Governmental endeavour to watch the watch schemes?

§ Lord Elton
My Lords, I am tempted, but I shall refrain from a terrible pun. We are watching it very closely.