HL Deb 03 April 1985 vol 462 cc227-9

2.48 p.m.

Lord Rodney

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they acknowledge that under existing Treasury rules there is a risk that well-established drug rehabilitation centres may have to be closed for lack of funds, while at the same time newly-established centres are guaranteed grant aid for three years.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Security (Baroness Trumpington)

My Lords, the department makes grants to national voluntary organisations, or to local experimental projects, only for an initial period, usually three years. Thereafter, the responsibility for funding rests with the relevant health authorities and social services departments. It is for them to ensure that successful established drug rehabilitation centres do not close unnecessarily.

Lord Rodney

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer, which I do not find altogether reassuring. Is she aware that the Still Waters Rehabilitation Centre in Essex may have to close because its lease has expired and it has been unable to get any assistance from the Department of Health and Social Security to purchase the premises? Nor has it been able to get any assistance from the local health authority. This a well-established and valuable centre, and the sum involved is only £30,000 or £40,000. Can this matter be looked into?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, in answer to my noble friend Lord Rodney, I understand that an application for a grant to purchase the property under a mortgage has been submitted to the department. The project has been asked to provide further information.

Lord Kilmarnock

My Lords, is it not the case that the Government have pledged £10 million over three years for this and related purposes? Can the sum referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Rodney, not be found out of that amount?

Baroness Trumpington

No, my Lords.

Lord Ennals

My Lords, does the noble Baroness not realise that as a result of the limitations on rate support grant, rate-capping and rate penalties local authorities are finding it more and more difficult to give the support to which she referred to drug units in the community? Will she accept that the £10 million over the next three years referred to by the noble Lord, Lord Kilmarnock, is quite inadequate to deal with a problem of epidemic proportions and horrendous size?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, to take the last part of the noble Lord's question first, however much money was spent and however many establishments were opened, I believe that we should still be hitting only the tip of the iceberg. It appears that financial provision alone would not be adequate in view of the very disturbing trend. On the question of rate-capping, the control is on total spending by each authority, and the authorities themselves will continue to decide relative priorities among their various services. There is no suggestion that a reduction should be made on an across-the-board basis, and there is no reason for authorities to reduce valuable services for the most vulnerable.

Lord Avebury

My Lords, to what extent does the existence of centres for the treatment of addiction to drugs or alcohol enable the courts to send offenders to them rather than to award them prison sentences? If the noble Baroness does not have any figures on that, will she suggest to the Department of Health and Social Security and the Home Office that research should be carried out to establish the link between those two matters? If there is one, surely expenditure on those centres should be a national responsibility and not that of local authorities.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I think that that question is a little wide of the one on the Order Paper. Nevertheless, I am sure that my right honourable friend will be interested to read what the noble Lord has said.

Baroness Macleod of Borve

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the invaluable work done by the London Street Agencies is likely to come to a close? Although it has been funded, as the Minister said, for the past three years, local hospital authorities are now supposed to be funding the agencies and have stated that they can fund only one-eighth of the amount that was given previously. Will she look into the problem?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, in point of fact the London Street Agencies were given an exceptional extension in grants to a final fourth year. The projects must look to health authorities and local authorities for future funding. The grants from the department ended on 31st March of this year.

Lord Ennals

Oh, no!

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

Next year?

Baroness Trumpington

It is 1985, my Lords. But I understand that the Standing Conference on Drug Abuse is attempting to establish a committee of existing and potential funders of ROMA and the street agencies with a view to securing agreement on future funding.

Lord Kilmarnock

My Lords, can the noble Baroness elaborate on her monosyllabic reply to me and indicate why the centres indicated by the noble Lord will not qualify for consideration out of the £10 million?

Baroness Trumpington

Because, my Lords, it is for local authorities to decide how they fund the centres which have outlived the three-year initial grant. If the noble Lord likes to see it, I have a great list of regional centres which have been set up, which I shall be very happy to let him have afterwards.

Lord Ennals

My Lords, does the noble Baroness not realise that this is a most serious problem? She is saying to her noble friend that at this time—

Noble Lords

Question!

Lord Ennals

Is the noble Baroness not saying to her noble friend that at this time, on one of the central social issues challenging us, it is possible that a centre for treatment and rehabilitation may be closed? Surely the Government must look at that again.

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I think I have already answered that question, but I would also say that prevention is better than cure. We are tackling the problem on many different fronts. Expensive resources are going into treatment and rehabilitation. We have already taken the exceptional step of making an additional £10 million available for pump-priming of local services. 11 is for the statutory authorities and for the voluntary and private sectors to decide locally what services are needed.

Lord Cledwyn of Penrhos

My Lords, the noble Baroness has given us a good deal of helpful information, as she always does, but in view of the exchanges in the House and the disquiet demonstrated in all parts of it, will she be good enough to look at the matter again and talk to her right honourable friend? It seems quite clear from the questions and the answers that the substance of the Question of the noble Lord, Lord Rodney, is that well established drug rehabilitation centres are being closed and that others without a created reputation are being opened. Should not the matter be looked at very carefully by her department?

Baroness Trumpington

My Lords, I am unaware of any centres that have been closed. I should like to add to what I said about Still Waters and stress that the department is actively considering the application.

Lord Ferrier

My Lords, am I right in saying that this problem is being tackled by the Secretary of State for Scotland energetically?

Baroness Trumpington

I do not know, my Lords.