§ 3.3 p.m.
§ Baroness Lane-FoxMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.
§ The Question was as follows:
§ To ask Her Majesty's Government, in the light of the successful negotiations over the 1983 EEC budget rebate, whether they will state the annual figures for net refunds paid to the United Kingdom since 1980.
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Security (Lord Glenarthur)My Lords, the annual figures for the net refunds paid to the United Kingdom since 1980 are £645 million in respect of 1980, £783 million in respect of 1981, £624 million in respect of 1982, and £391 million in respect of 1983. There is still approximately £43 million in respect of 1983 outstanding, which represents 10 per cent. of the refunds and which will be paid after the Commission have inspected the projects to which the refunds are being applied. We expect this to be paid by the end of the year.
§ Baroness Lane-FoxMy Lords, in thanking my noble friend the Minister for that very informative reply, may I ask whether he does not agree that it gives cause for considerable satisfaction that, due to the tenacity of this Government, we now have straight the question of budget rebates, and that as I understand it, from next year the United Kingdom will receive its rebates automatically?
§ Lord GlenarthurYes, my Lords, I certainly agree with my noble friend. As my right honourable friend the Prime Minister said when reporting in another place on the Fontainebleau Summit, the agreement is a successful culmination of the Government's,
long and persistent efforts to correct the budget inequity and to put the United Kingdom's refunds on a lasting basis"—[Official Report, Commons, 27/6/84; col. 993.]1007 My right honourable friend described the outcome of the council meeting as good for Britain and good for the Community, making possible a relaunching of the Community in which Britain will play a full role.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, will the noble Lord confirm that during the period 1980 to 1983 the total net United Kingdom contributions to the EEC amounted to no less than £2,456 million, an average of £600 million a year? Will the noble Lord not agree that that is a far cry from the broad balance promised by the Prime Minster at the start of the negotiations? Furthermore, does he not also consider that these payments, for which we receive no tangible benefit, are a bad bargain for Britain, especially at a time when the Chancellor of the Exchequer is slashing public expenditure in all directions?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I think that the last part of the noble Lord's question goes rather wide of the Question on the Order Paper. However, so far as our net contribution to the Community in the future is concerned—and this is the important point and the point which has been brought out by my noble friend's Question—the fact is that our net payments in future years will be around half what they might have been had there been no agreement reached at Fontainebleau; there would have been no further refunds and no abatements. The noble Lord might like to know that more detailed information on our net payments in future years will be published in the next public expenditure White Paper.
§ Lord KennetMy Lords, talking of playing full roles, will the Government now take us into the European Monetary System?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I think that that is another Question.
§ Baroness SeearMy Lords, will the noble Lord not agree that, now this matter has been settled we hope once and for all, we should hear much less about these shop-keeping arrangements and more about the development of a really effective Community?
§ Lord GlenarthurYes, my Lords, I entirely share the noble Baroness's views.
§ Lord ArdwickMy Lords, will the noble Lord agree that the results are due not only to the tenacity of the Government, but also to the good will of other members of the Community?
§ Lord GlenarthurYes, my Lords, other members play an important part as well.
§ Lord BeswickMy Lords, is the noble Lord really saying that the matter will now be closed, even though there is such a big gap between what we pay and what we receive?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, the matter will be closed in that sense, because, of course, it is an ongoing concern. But the fact that these arrangements have now been made will allow us to look at the restructuring of expenditure generally and over time 1008 perhaps reduce the proportion of the budget spent on agriculture and, therefore, release more funds for structural projects, including those involving regional and social funds. I think that that goes some way towards meeting the noble Lord's concern.
§ Lord BeswickMy Lords, is not the noble Lord confusing the House with this talk of reductions? It still means that the United Kingdom, which is not the richest member of the Community, is paying into the fund much more than it is getting out.
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, the fact is that we are now able to get out rather more than we were previously.
§ Baroness Burton of CoventryMy Lords, does the Minister not think that it would be nice if somebody paid tribute to the Prime Minister for having got back this money? Is the noble Lord aware that some of us—and I certainly speak for myself—are sick and tired of this constant nibbling away at a job of work which I for one think has been well done?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I quite agree with the noble Baroness and I entirely share the sentiments that she has expressed.
§ Lord Stoddart of SwindonMy Lords, I wonder whether the noble Lord would answer one short question in relation to our future contributions, which he mentioned, which of course will be 1.4 per cent. of VAT as opposed to 1 per cent. now. Has actual agreement been reached on future control of the Community's financial matters? Has that been finally agreed?
§ Lord GlenarthurMy Lords, I think that the answer to that question is, yes, at Fontainebleau. I gave the details in my earlier answer to the noble Lord.