HL Deb 12 April 1984 vol 450 cc1275-8

11.15 a.m.

Lord Nugent of Guildford

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows: To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will make representations to British Telecom to include post codes in the addresses of subscribers to the new telephone directory.

Lord Lyell

My Lords, it is for British Telecom to assess the case for this in the light, among other things, of views expressed to them by the Post Office and by telephone and postal users.

Lord Nugent of Guildford

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer, which does not give me much information. Does it mean that the new postal directories will contain the post codes for every address?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, did I hear my noble friend aright? He said "postal directories". I am able to inform my noble friend that among the new British Telecom directories there is a new book that is called The Phone Book, which I understand was launched last month in central Manchester for the area. I understand that British Telecom and the Post Office are discussing the possibility of including post codes for four areas in the new telephone books. The areas will be Northern Ireland, Shrewsbury and Mid-Wales, Exeter and Edinburgh. But I am sure that, as my noble friend and your Lordships will be aware, the matter of post codes is a matter for the Post Office.

Lord Nugent of Guildford

My Lords, that may be so, but is my noble friend aware that the cost of the postal services is a matter of concern to everybody? What would be the saving to the postal services if there was universal use of post codes, made compulsory throughout the country? How much would that save us in sending our letters?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, I am not able to inform my noble friend about what would be the saving by the use of post codes. My noble friend asked whether the use of post codes might be made compulsory, but perhaps he can suggest how the use of post codes could be made compulsory. I will convey his feelings on this matter both to the Post Office and to British Telecom.

Lady Saltoun

My Lords, can the noble Lord tell us how many computerised sorting offices there are in this country, and, if so, where they are?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, no, not without notice; but I shall inquire and will write to the noble Lady.

The Earl of Halsbury

My Lords, can the noble Lord give me a good reason why, if they are compulsory in Canada, post codes cannot be made compulsory in this country?

Lord Lyell

As I said, my Lords, I shall inquire. I shall inquire from the Post Office and will write to the noble Earl. But we receive ceaseless advice and have ceaseless requests from the Post Office to use post codes. I am sure your Lordships will agree that this is a matter for the consumer and a matter for the Post Office.

Lord Mowbray and Stourton

My Lords, would not one way to encourage the use of post codes be for the Post office to relegate mail without post codes to second-class status?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, that is a very interesting suggestion which I am sure the Post Office will note; but I am sure my noble friend will be aware that the Post Office grants concessionary facilities to bulk users of the post if these users put post codes on all outgoing mail which is the subject of this concessionary rate.

Lord Bottomley

My Lords, what about the carriage of second-class mail?

Lord Lyell

I understand that this is for all mail, my Lords. For concessionary bulk postage I believe it is a separate class of mail, on its own.

Lord Spens

My Lords, is it not a fact that the Post Office grants concessions to bulk users of mail irrespective of whether or not they use post codes?

Lord Lyell

I am sorry, my Lords; perhaps I should have clarified the position. It is that the Post Office grants additional concessions to those sending bulk mail who use post codes on outgoing mail.

Lord Nugent of Guildford

My Lords, while I appreciate that my noble friend is not directly responsible for this, may I ask him whether he will pass on to the Post Office the general wish that it should accelerate its programme of introducing post codes generally in the light of the many years of preparation? Will he ask that the Post Office should fix an early date when they will be universal, and proclaim when that will be?

Lord Lyell

I shall certainly pass that message on, my Lords.

Lady Saltoun

In that case, my Lords, will the noble Lord ask the Post Office if it will take some steps to enable users easily to find out the post codes of people they wish to write to?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, I understand that information on post codes is available in Post Offices, in the post code directories. I understand that these may be consulted in all Crown offices. I inquired about this, and I understand that "Crown offices" means all general post offices in all towns. In addition, the post code directories are available in most sub-post offices and in most public libraries. If the noble Lady has any difficulties, perhaps she would let me know.

Lord Wallace of Coslany

My Lords, the Question put down by the noble Lord, Lord Nugent of Guildford, refers to British Telecom. Practically all the questions asked by and replies given to noble Lords have referred to the Post Office. Is this House not aware that the Government have sold off British Telecom and that it now has nothing whatever to do with the Post Office?

Lord Lyell

My Lords, the noble Lord is quite correct, but that does not prevent the Government from passing on to the Post Office and to British Telecom the wishes of your Lordships' House.