HL Deb 04 May 1982 vol 429 cc1046-7

2.44 p.m.

Baroness Wootton of Abinger

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether rifles may be used with live anmmuition in fairground shooting galleries without any person holding a licence to possess them; and, if so, whether they will put an end to this dangerous exemption from the laws relating to firearms.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Elton)

My Lords, Section 11(4) of the Firearms Act 1968 permits a person conducting or carrying on a shooting gallery at which only air weapons or miniature rifles not exceeding .23 calibre are used, to acquire and possess such rifles and their ammunition, without holding a firearm certificate. It is not necessary to hold a certificate to use an exempted rifle at a shooting gallery. We are not persuaded that the removal of this exemption would be justified at present, but the position will be kept under review.

Baroness Wootton of Abinger

My Lords, while thanking the noble Lord the Minister for his reassurance, might I ask him whether there is not a danger that some of these weapons, which may be lethal, will eventually find their way into the hands of persons who want to use them for criminal purposes?

Lord Elton

My Lords, our experience in recent years is that this rarely, if ever, happens. I would remind the noble Baroness that the weapon we are discussing is not really suitable to the sort of purposes for which the normal criminal wants to use such a weapon. I accept that one might expect them to be a source of illicit weapons, but on the other hand they are the livelihood of their owners and their owners therefore keep considerable care of them.

Lord Gisborough

My Lords, would my noble friend agree that there is no control over the sale of these weapons when the fair owners decide to modernise?

Lord Elton

My Lords, the exemption extends only to weapons of what we would call .22 calibre—that is, below .23. The Home Office recommendation is that only short ammunition should be used, which has approximately half the carrying range of the long .22, which I do not doubt my noble friend uses from time to time at home. As to the sale, the purchaser has to prove his eligibility for the exemption, usually by showing that he is a member of the Showmen's Guild. Nobody else is likely therefore to profit from that exemption.

Lord Swansea

My Lords, is it not the case that at the shooting galleries the rifles are normally chained to the counter so that they cannot easily be removed, and that given proper supervision by the proprietor there is little likelihood of their being stolen? Although the proprietor does not need to have a certificate to possess such weapons, are the serial numbers of the rifles concerned registered with the police as a matter of routine?

Lord Elton

My Lords, as to the registration of numbers I regret I shall have to write to my noble friend. As to restraints on the weapons, typically, yes, they are restrained. Their use is also regulated by local authority legislation and is subject to Home Office guidance published in 1976. The effect of this is that in almost every case there is protection for the public at every point in front of the firing position, and it is impossible to swing the weapon behind it.

Baroness Wootton of Abinger

My Lords, is the Minister satisfied that there is sufficient protection after sale, and that the conditions of sale are sufficiently strict? Even if there is no serious danger of accidents during the use of the weapons for the purpose for which they are issued, would the noble Lord confirm that there is strict supervision of the persons who may purchase them eventually?

Lord Elton

My Lords, the exemption extends, as I have said, only to bona fide operators of shooting galleries at fairs. Our experience at present leads us to suppose that this is not a means by which criminals improperly acquire weapons either from the original supplier or from the fairground operators. We have made inquiries to that effect. I am reassured, but, as I have said, this is a delicate matter which we shall keep under review.