HL Deb 04 May 1982 vol 429 cc1044-5

2.39 p.m.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they noted allegations made by specialists at the conference on renal failure at the University of East Anglia on 5th-6th April 1982, that 1,700 people die of kidney failure each year because the National Health Service has not enough money to treat them, and that patients are turned away not for medical reasons but because of age, poverty and social and linguistic conditions; and what they propose to do to remedy this situation.

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Security (Lord Trefgarne)

My Lords, I am aware of the proceedings of this conference. While facilities for treatment of chronic renal failure have been expanding steadily, the Government recognise that they are still insufficient to meet all the estimated needs. We are taking various steps to encourage the improvement of these services, particularly the supply of kidneys for transplantation, but the rate at which they can be further expanded will depend mainly on the priority which health authorities find it possible to give them against the other claims on their resources.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord the Minister for that reply. Is he aware that, by its nature, the transplant side of the policy must be very hit or miss? Is he not aware that that cannot be good for all those involved; the relatives of those who require treatment of this kind, who believe that someone will die, or the consultants, who believe that they could stop the death? Would the noble Lord be prepared to have another look at the problems raised in the Question, for which I think he would receive the thanks of all involved?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I certainly would not describe the transplant procedure as hit or miss, as I think the noble Lord did. It is in fact by far the best treatment for this kind of illness and is only inhibited from expanding further because of the shortage of kidneys available for transplant purposes. It is unfortunately the case that last year the supply of kidneys declined somewhat and therefore the number of transplant operations was fewer last year. But there are encouraging signs this year that the number is picking up again.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, is the noble Lord aware that that is precisely what I meant when I said that it must be hit or miss? The medical profession and those involved cannot give an absolute assurance that they will get a kidney to transplant, but they could give an absolute assurance that they will involve themselves in all that is concerned in the renal application in order to try to save lives.

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, as the noble Lord rightly pointed out, the number of kidneys is limited, and that certainly restricts the number of patients who can be treated in this way. The other types of treatment—for example, dialysis of two or three different kinds—is certainly an alternative, but it is less satisfactory both in terms of cost and from the patient's own point of view.

Lord Brockway

My Lords, will the Minister encourage individuals to carry on themselves indications that they would be prepared for their kidneys to be used for this operation, as I do?—though I am not sure that my kidneys would be of much value.

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I would certainly agree with the noble Lord that this should be done. The kidney donor card is a red card like this. I understand that supplies are available in your Lordships' Library, so those of your Lordships who do not carry such a card, and who would like to, can do so if you wish.

Lord Parry

My Lords, is anyone prepared to accept applications for the noble Lord's kidneys?

Lord Trefgarne

No, my Lords, only his heart.

Lord Molloy

My Lords, may I briefly ask the noble Lord a further question? The noble Lord should be thanked for having read the terms of the conference and what went on there, but may I ask whether he will be sending an acknowledgement saying that he appreciates all that was conveyed during that conference and the apprehensions of the people involved?

Lord Trefgarne

My Lords, I certainly acknowledge the apprehensions of the people involved, as the noble Lord said. The conference was I think in fact conducted by a commercial organisation, and the Government did not therefore participate in the conference, although we had an observer present.