§ Lord WIGGMy Lords, I beg leave to ask the first Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.
The Question was as follows:
To ask Her Majesty's Government what percentage of our total deficit in non-oil visible trade in 1974 was attributable to the 8 EEC countries.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, the non-oil deficit with the E.E.C. accounted for 110 per cent, of the total non-oil deficit in 1974.
§ Lord WIGGMy Lords, in view of the startling nature of that reply, would the noble Lord be kind enough to ask the Foreign Secretary, who I understand now controls the negotiations in connection with Articles 92 and 93, what he is going to do about it? My noble friend will no doubt bear in mind that I stressed the responsibility of the Foreign Secretary because on Saturday morning there was a directive given from the Foreign Office that questions arising from Articles 92 and 93 are not now matters of principle but of technique.
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, I will certainly bring my noble friend's views to the attention of my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary.
§ Baroness WOOTTON of ABINGERMy Lords, does my noble friend remember the glorious prospects that were held out to us at the time of our entry into the EEC, and the vast export market which it was held out would then become available to us so as to give us a positive surplus with the EEC instead of the negative one which we have now?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, I would have expected my noble friend to take a longer view than two years.
§ Lord WIGGMy Lords, would my noble friend bear in mind that the implied question of the previous speaker was rather like the army slogan?—We love eggs and bacon, if we had some eggs and somebody would bring us some bacon. The promises are always in the future. What we want to know is what the Government are going to do about the startling reply they have given today.
§ Baroness ELLESMy Lords, may I ask two questions: first, what was the difference in the percentage of trade deficit with the EEC countries in 1972 and 1974; and secondly, would the Minister agree that an immense saving was made by buying food from the EEC in 1973 and 1974 to the tune of £500 million while our Commonwealth deficit was already £580 million and we would have spent far more on food, if we could have afforded it, from Europe? Will the noble Lord confirm that?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, I should, like to discuss the matter with the noble Baroness, but in point of fact we were talking about a very limited area in this Question.
Lord CAMPBELL of CROYMy Lords, would not the noble Lord agree that our overall deficit with the world would have been worse than it is today if our trade with the eight had not grown as fast as it has as a result of Community membership?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, the real problem with statistics is that one can make them mean anything. Speaking quite honestly now, and not as—
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOM—a committed marketeer, as I am, I think that the statistics are totally inconclusive. It is a question of time scale.
§ Lord GLADWYNMy Lords, will the Government rectify this adverse balance of trade with the eight by restricting imports from the Community?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, that is another, and a very difficult question.
§ Lord HALEMy Lords, does my noble friend recall that on 13th January in another place the Minister of Trade— answering what I think was a similar question—said that the non-oil deficit attributable to the Common Market countries was 96 per cent., and he repeated that constantly under a series of questions? Could he now say whether the statement he is making today is with the approval of the Ministry of Trade or whether his figures have come from another source?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, they have come from exactly the same source, but time marches on and things change. However, I am afraid these questions will be with us for some time yet.
§ Lord SHINWELLMy Lords, my noble friend answered my noble friend Lady Wootton of Abinger and said that we ought to take a longer view than two years; can he give us an estimate of how many years it will take?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, if I could, life would be a great deal easier, but I am afraid I cannot—nor can a great many expert advisers.
§ Baroness ELLESMy Lords, can the noble Lord state the difference in the balance of payments with the Common-wealth over the last year as compared with our balance of payments deficit with the EEC?
§ Lord WINTERBOTTOMMy Lords, that is quite aside from the Question under discussion. There is another Question coming, which might be slightly more apposite.