HL Deb 10 August 1972 vol 334 cc1270-2

2.44 p.m.

VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARD

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether they will consider making illegal the "Lundin" or "Protecta" system now being used for intensive pig production.

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, Her Majesty's Government have considered this system very carefully. We consider that the system is acceptable under proper management, and the advice of our Farm Animal Welfare Advisory Committee, which was specifically sought by my right honourable friend, the Minister of Agriculture, does not suggest that we should alter this view.

VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARD

My Lords, while thanking my noble friend for that reply, may I ask him whether he is aware that this system to all intents and purposes turns a sow into a live milk bottle in a crate where her slightest movement is restricted? And may I ask whether he is further aware that the system runs contrary to the whole spirit of the principles embodied in the recommendations of the Brambell Committee?

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, I cannot agree with my noble friend that the animal's movement is entirely restricted, because in fact in many cases the sow has even more movement than she has in the conventional farrowing crate.

LORD PEDDIE

My Lords, would the noble Earl indicate what is proper management in the use of these two systems?

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, not without going into a great deal of detail. If the noble Lord studied the welfare codes for pigs he would gather what was proper management.

LORD PEDDIE

My Lords, I am asking whether the noble Earl would tell me, because I have not had the advantage of reading that document.

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, perhaps I could give the noble Lord the advantage of reading the document. It would save him, me and the House a lot of trouble.

VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARD

My Lords, would my noble friend not agree that the sow, when confined like this, is completely at the mercy of her piglets and can have no rest periods? Further, may I ask my noble friend whether he knows that there are certain districts in Sweden where this system has been banned?

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, I do not agree with my noble friend that the sow has no rest period. It has the ability to stand up, to sit down and to move about and it can prevent its piglets from suckling it. I would assure my noble friend that my right honourable friend was concerned about this method. He asked his veterinary advisers to look at the system, and they went to the 19 places where they located that the system was being used. He also inquired of the Farm Animal Welfare Advisory Committee. The results of those inquiries led him to believe that, as I said, under proper management this system is acceptable.

VISCOUNT MASSEREENE AND FERRARD

My Lords, may I ask my noble friend whether he will ensure that the Ministry keeps an eye on this system and that it is inspected by veterinary officers on the various farms where it is practised, in order to see that it is not abused?

EARL FERRERS

My Lords, there can be few systems of husbandry management which would have quite such fulsome inspection as this has had, and my noble friend can rest assured that my right honourable friend has taken the best advice he can over it.