HL Deb 10 August 1972 vol 334 cc1272-5
LORD STRABOLGI

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question which stands in my name on the Order Paper.

The Question was as follows:

To ask Her Majesty's Government whether, following their discussions with the Trustees of the National Museums and Galleries, they are able to make a Statement about free days, if charges for admission to these institutions are introduced.

THE PAYMASTER GENERAL (VISCOUNT ECCLES)

My Lords, The Trustees of the National Gallery, while they accept that the introduction of charges and the amount to be collected are matters of Government policy, wish to have a free day on Wednesdays. In order to maintain their share of the total to be collected, they would double the basic charge on Mondays and Fridays, raising it to 20p from September to June and 40p in July and August.

I told the Trustees that we considered they were right not to risk the overcrowding that might result from a free day at the week-end. On the other hand, we wondered how much use a free day in the middle of the week would be to those who may be unable to afford 10p. It was a matter of judgment how the public would receive the wide variations in charges proposed by the National Gallery. In our view, two different charges on consecutive days before and after the free day would cause confusion and have divisive and undesirable results. The Trustees have not been persuaded by these arguments and the Government, despite their own reservations, have agreed to the Trustees' proposal for an experimental period. The Tate Gallery are proceeding with their scheme of two free periods a week. No other decision has been taken.

LORD STRABOLGI

My Lords, I thank the noble Viscount for that reply. Arising out of it, and particularly the last sentence that no other decision has been taken, may I ask him whether he is aware that the Wallace Collection have recently written to the Department of Education and Science saying that they definitely intend to have a free day without extra charges on other days? Will the noble Viscount comment on that statement?

VISCOUNT ECCLES

My Lords, I have asked the Chairman of the Wallace Collection to come and talk to me, because obviously to have a free day without any compensating increase in the charges would mean that the Wallace Collection was not collecting its fair proportion of the £1 million. It has always been our view that whereas Trustees might, if they wished, vary the system by having such a thing as a free day, it must not alter their share of the total amount to be collected.

LORD STRABOLGI

My Lords, as this free day, according to a Government Answer yesterday in another place, would amount to only £4,000 a year, cannot they grant this small concession?

VISCOUNT ECCLES

My Lords, it is not really a question of the amount in one particular gallery. It would set a precedent affecting the system of charges which was based on having only 10p as the basic charge. I have always felt that it was very much in the interests of the public to keep the basic charge as low as we could, and that means that the concessions that are possible if the £1 million is to be collected are very few.

BARONESS LEE OF ASHERIDGE

My Lords, may I ask the Paymaster General whether he will convey to the Trustees of our great museums and galleries the sympathy of many of us that they should be put to such straits in asserting their independence, and assure them that all this nonsense in which the present Government are indulging, and which should never have taken place, will be short-lived?

VISCOUNT ECCLES

My Lords, my impression is that as time has gone on the Trustees of the galleries have begun to realise that the public is not all that concerned about paying an entrance charge. After all, we have no complaints about those museums and places of historic interest where there has been an entrance charge for a long time and where the attendances have gone up at least as much as in the museums that do not charge.

LORD SEGAL

My Lords, does the noble Viscount realise that he is in grave danger of going down to posterity as the author of the Eccles admission charges long after all his good works are forgotten; and will he not pause on the brink while there is yet time?

VISCOUNT ECCLES

My Lords, I have never bothered myself about posterity when I am no longer here.

LORD AIREDALE

My Lords, is the Minister quite so sure that a free day at the Wallace Collection will lead to a reduction of takings? Is not the Wallace Collection visited too little at the present time? Does it not need some sort of stimulus; and might not a free day awaken more interest and even increase the takings on pay days?

VISCOUNT ECCLES

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord that the Wallace Collection does need some sort of stimulus, but it would take a long argument to decide what sort of stimulus.

LORD SEGAL

My Lords, is there not a grave danger that the rumblings of posterity may overtake the noble Viscount while he is still here?