§ [No. 15]
§
Clause 24, page 14, line 39, at end insert—
("(3) The Secretary of State shall prepare in respect of the last financial year of the bodies mentioned in subsection (1)(a), (b) and (d) above and in respect of any period between the end of that year and the appointed day, in such form as the Treasury may direct, summarised accounts of those bodies, and shall transmit them as soon as may be to the Comptroller and Auditor General who shall examine and certify them and lay copies of them together with his report thereon before both Houses of Parliament.").
§ LORD POLWARTHMy Lords, I beg to move that this House doth agree with the Commons in their Amendment No. 15. This makes formal provision for action on the final accounts of bodies being dissolved. It was tabled after discussion with the officers of the Comptroller and Auditor General.
§ Moved, That this House doth agree with the Commons in the said Amendment.—(Lord Polwarth.)
§ LORD HOYMy Lords, I was interested to hear the last sentence of the noble Lord's speech when he said that it was done "with the concurrence" (is that what the noble Lord said?) of the Comptroller and Auditor General.
§ LORD POLWARTHMy Lords, no. I said, "after discussion with".
§ LORD HOYAfter discussion with the officers of the Comptroller and Auditor General. I want to say a word or two about this. It says:
… summarised accounts of those bodies, and shall transmit them as soon as may be to the Comptroller and Auditor General who shall examine and certify them and lay copies of them together with his report thereon before both Houses of Parliament.Truth to tell, I could not understand the reason for this, because as one who has served on the Public Accounts Committee of another place for more years than I care to remember I thought it was always the duty of a Government when it was spending taxpayers' money to submit this to the Comptroller and Auditor General. I do not understand why it has to be done quite so regularly. As I understood it, the old practice used to be that the Public Accounts Committee made up its mind whom it wanted to examine. If it wanted to call along the Scottish Health Department it did 429 so—and on many occasions I was present when it did so—because it had something to inquire about.I do not know whether there has been any general change in the procedure, but it looked to me to be a change in procedure which I found it a little difficult to understand. Indeed, I should have thought that it was simpler to lay out the accounts for the Comptroller and Auditor General once sorted out. What assurance does he want about the cash—this will be included in the balance sheet in the return? He has always had the power to examine it, and examine witnesses, if he wished to do so. I find it a little strange. It may be that I am a little out of date since I left the other place two years ago. I do not know whether changes have been made. I have a great respect for the Comptroller and Auditor General, and always have had, but I should not want him to think that he could lay down to Parliament what he thought the procedure ought to be. I am certain that I should be doing him an injustice and that the noble Lord, Lord Polwarth, will be able to get up and tell me that this is not the intention. I can only hope that by adding these sentences to what I did not intend to say an answer will have been provided.
§ LORD POLWARTHMy Lords, I am probably not as familiar as the noble Lord with procedure in these matters, not having been a Member of another place. All I can tell him is that the provision is purely to establish the right of the Comptroller by Statute in relation to a dissolved body, not a continuing one. I am told that this is necessary.