HL Deb 01 August 1922 vol 51 cc1010-2

Order of the Day for the House to be put into Committee read.

Moved, That the House do now resolve itself into Committee.—(Lord Lambourne.)

On Question, Motion agreed to.

House in Committee accordingly.

[The EARL OF DO NOUGHMORE in the Chair.]

Clause 1 agreed to.

Clause 2:

Fee for licence, &c., to export horses.

2. Notwithstanding anything in section forty-seven of the Diseases of Animals Act, 1894, or in section one of the Diseases of Animals Act, 1910, and subject to section three of this Act the fee payable for the examination prior to exportation or shipment of a horse by s veterinary inspector under the above-mentioned Acts shall be the sum of twenty pounds for each animal, and such fee shall be paid before the examination takes place to the Ministry of Agriculture and Fisheries.

THE DUKE OF BUCCLEUCH moved to leave out "twenty pounds" and to insert "five shillings." The noble Duke said: The fee payable in Clause 2 to a veterinary inspector is £20 for each animal. All your Lordships sympathise very much with the object of this Bill and I hope that it will be carried out. But at the same time I do not think that your Lordships can intend, in passing this Bill, that the export of all horses except those under five years of age shall be prohibited. It is a very serious matter and will affect the breeding of horses which is difficult enough to carry on now with success. There are a very large number of perfectly sound and good horses exported which probably could not be sold with advantage otherwise.

Amendment moved— Page 2, line 7, leave out ("twenty pounds") and insert ("five shillings").—(The Duke of Buccleuch.)


I hope the noble Duke will not press this Amendment now, because we are intensely anxious to stop this traffic in old horses and I am sure he is, too. When the Bill goes down to another place during the recess I promise that I will endeavour with those who are working with me to meet the noble Duke's wishes in this respect.


Is the noble Lord prepared to agree to the point made, which seems to me to have considerable importance? If the noble Lord does not sympathise he might as well face the point and discuss it now.


I could not agree to the Amendment. We are of opinion that it would quite upset the whole Bill and that the traffic would go on exactly as it does now. For that reason I could not accept the Amendment.


May I suggest to the noble Lord that he had much better say plainly now, instead of postponing it, that he cannot accept the Amendment, and then we shall know where we are.


I have said so. I said that I could not possibly accept it.

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 2, as amended, agreed to.

Clause 3:

Fee for licence, &c., in particular cases.

3. The fee payable for examination by a veterinary inspector prior to exportation or shipment of a horse shall be five shillings in the following cases:—

  1. (a) On the shipment of any horse which is certified to be registered in the recognised stud book of its breed by the official registrar or keeper of the said stud book:
  2. (b) On the shipment of any horse certified by the veterinary inspector of the Ministry to be not more than five years of age:

Provided always that the certificate of the veterinary inspector of the Ministry shall contain a statement that the horse is of greater value than forty pounds and all necessary certificates shall be delivered at the time of shipment to the master of the vessel on which the animal is shipped, who shall, on demand, produce the same to any constable or any inspector or other officer of the Ministry or the local authority and allow such person to take a copy of or extract from each certificate.

LORD TENTERDEN moved, in the proviso to Clause 3, after "Ministry," where that word secondly appears, to insert "or of any recognised humane society." The noble Lord said: This Amendment is really in the nature of a suggestion to your Lordships. I beg to move.

Amendment moved— Page 2, line 27, after ("Ministry") insert ("or of any recognised humane society").—(Lord Tenterden.)

On Question, Amendment agreed to.

Clause 3, as amended, agreed to.

Remaining clauses agreed to.

Then (Standing Order No. XXXIX having been suspended) it was moved, That these Amendments be now considered.—(Lord Lambourne.)


Is it necessary that the Report stage should be taken now? I do not want to inconvenience my noble friend, but the Amendment which was last inserted was almost undefended and I should think it would be wise that we should look at it again tomorrow. If my noble friend presses his Motion I do not want to stop him, but I should think it would be wise to postpone it in view of the small Amendment which was put in by the noble Lord, Lord Tenterden, just now. I was rather surprised that my noble friend did not have something to say upon it. It is now in the Bill, and it cannot be altered again unless we have another day to consider it. Therefore, I suggest that the noble Lord would be wise to put the Bill down for to-morrow.

Motion, by leave, adjourned.