HL Deb 11 August 1921 vol 43 cc502-5
THE MARQUESS OF LINCOLNSHIRE

My Lords, I desire to ask the Questions which stand in my name on the Paper, namely:—

  1. 1. What is the area of the agricultural land of the Crown already sold or to be offered for sale?
  2. 2. How much has been realised by such sales, and how has this money been invested?
  3. 3. What is the estimated value of the land to be offered for sale?
  4. 4. How much agricultural land still remains the property of the Crown after the completion of the contemplated sales?
  5. 5. How much of the Crown Lands have been let to ex-officers, non-commissioned officers and soldiers who have fought in the Great War?
  6. 6. Is it proposed to offer for sale any land in the occupation of ex-Service men?
I shall not detain the House with any attempt to make a speech, but I hope I may be allowed to say one word in congratulation of the noble Earl opposite upon the decision that has been taken, and announced in another place with regard to Runnymede.

As regards the Questions of which I gave Notice I have only this to say: It may be said, and probably will be said, that the Government are only carrying out the line of conduct adopted by many private persons, and that they are selling land so as to increase the income. It is unfortunately true that, owing to the very heavy taxation and the cost of repairs, and other reasons, it has been obligatory on some persons to sell portions of their estates, but I very respectfully submit that the two cases are not on all fours. What is perfectly justifiable in the case of a private individual has quite a different aspect when it is done on public grounds. The Crown lands, as I understand, are a national trust, and they ought to be administered from a national point of view, especially at this time, when, after the Great War, the men who fought for the country have come back hoping to be put on the land, which they were under the impression they would be able to share. It is very necessary that this national land should be used for a national purpose, and that these men who have done so much for the country should be allowed to have some land on which to settle on their return to the country.

I have congratulated the Government on their action with regard. to Runnymede, and I venture very respectfully to hope that it is not too late for the Minister of Agriculture to reverse the policy of his predecessor and to restore the confidence which for so many generations has existed among the tenants of the Crown Lands. Though I am told it is within the law I hope that we shall never hear again of large blocks of Crown Lands, which contain cottages and small holdings and allotments, being sold without the knowledge and consent of Parliament.

THE PARLIAMENTARY SECRETARY OF THE MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE AND FISHERIES (THE EARL OFANCASTER)

My Lords, the answers to the noble Marquess's Questions are as follows:—

  1. (1) The Commissioners of Woods are empowered by an Act in the reign of George IV to sell any part of the land revenues in their charge except Royal forests, parks, or chases, and, under Section 60 of that Act, no sale of a property of a value in excess of £100 shall be made without the previous authority of the Commissioners of His Majesty's Treasury for the time being, signified by Warrant. Since that Act was passed in 1829 many sales of Crown Lands have taken place. The area of the agricultural land, under the charge of the Minister of Agriculture asex-officioCommissioner of Woods, sold during the financial year 1919–20 was 2,419 acres. We were not quite certain whether the noble Marquess required the total sold since 1829. Of course, those figures would take a good deal of getting out, 504 but they are available if any one wishes to look up the Reports.
  2. (2) £95,665 was realised by such sales, and the money has been invested in the name of the Treasury in long-dated Government securities by, and on the advice of, the National Debt Commissioners. Contracts have been entered into during the current financial year for the sale of 470 acres for £49,675, and a farm of 264 acres has been sold to the Cheshire County Council under Section 9 of the Land Settlement (Facilities) Act, 1919, for a perpetual annuity of £720.
  3. (3) A further 10,109 acres have been scheduled for sale this year, the estimated value of which is £202,200.
  4. (4) About 70,000 acres of agricultural land in England and Wales will remain the property of the Crown when the above sales have been completed.
  5. (5) Upwards of 9,000 acres have been let either directly or indirectly to ex-Service men who served their country in the Great War.
  6. (6) In the case of the comparatively small acreage of the scheduled land occupied by ex-Service men as small holdings, particulars of sale are sent to the county councils, the statutory authority for land settlement purposes, with an intimation that any of the land would be sold on the basis of a perpetual annuity, and it is hoped that by that means none of the ex-Service men will be dispossessed.
I may add that during the last ten years more agricultural land has been bought than sold. I do not know whether the noble Marquess wishes to initiate a general discussion on this matter, but I should like to make the statement that, of course, the trustees who administer the Crown estates are acting in a fiduciary position, and, although they should administer them in a businesslike and, I might almost say, in a generous manner, I do' not think it right or proper that they should act entirely on sentiment, or as philanthropists. The noble Marquess rather hinted that some pledge should be given by the Minister of Agriculture that in the future he would not sell any more of the Crown Lands. I do not think I can give that promise, because it is really a question for the trustee. As a trustee one really ought to act in the best interests of the trust.

THE MAHQUESS OF CREWE

My Lords, this is an interesting matter, and there is, of course, a considerable question of policy involved, upon which it would not be fair to press the noble Earl at this moment. But I think that on some occasion or other it would be interesting to learn what the general policy of His Majesty's Government is on this question of Crown Lands. It is not, I think, quite reasonable to put the whole matter on the shoulders of the Minister of Agriculture; it is a question of Government policy, and I take it that anything like the general sale of agricultural Crown Lands would be a matter riot to be decided by one Minister, but by the Government as a whole. I have no doubt that there are arguments which could be used both ways, particularly with regard to what has fallen from my noble friend who asked the Questions.

I think the whole matter of the relation of State lands to those who have deserved well of the State, such as those who took part in, and suffered in, the war, demands very careful consideration. Of course, it might be argued that the settlement of men on the land ought to be left to local authorities, and that it is not a matter for the consideration of the central authority at all. I could quite understand that being argued, but on some occasion it would be interesting to find out, as I have no doubt could be done by Motion or Question, what the general policy of His Majesty's Government is regarding Crown Lands as a whole.