*THE LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (The Earl of CREWE)My Lords, I ask your Lordships' indulgence in rising to set right a misunderstanding on a question of figures which arose during the discussion on the subject of religious education in council schools raised yesterday by the most rev. 6 Primate. In the course of my remarks I stated that there were thirteen schools in England in which no religious instruction was given. I was, of course, referring to the Return, and my observation was limited by the amount of information which the Return conveys, which is, in fact, the whole of the information on the subject which we have at the Board of Education. What I intended to convey was that authorities had replied in the negative to the fifth question, which was put to all the local education authorities, to the extent of thirteen schools in which they stated that no religious instruction was given. The most rev Primate corrected me and mentioned the case of Huddersfield and certain other places in which the Bible is simply read without note or comment. I think it might possibly be argued that when the Bible is read by the teacher within the hours of regular attendance it must be regarded as a form of religious instruction, but I have no wish to press that point. I merely desire to make it clear what the difference in regard to the figures was between the most rev. Primate and myself. In his speech the most rev. Primate alluded to the figures of Wales. He referred to the counties of Carmarthen and Cardigan and quoted the figures given in the Return of the number of schools in those counties in which, on their own showing, no religious instruction was given, and it was in comparison between Wales and England that I stated the figure as I did.
*THE LORD ARCHBISHOP OF CANTERBURYMy Lords, I am sure the last thing the noble Earl desired was to convey a misleading impression, and I accept his explanation absolutely. Lest I should be thought to have twisted the point as to whether religious instruction is given when the Bible is simply road without note or comment, I would point out that the Huddersfield local education authority state explicitly, for I will quote their actual words, that in the council schools it is provided that "no religious teaching shall be given."the Huddersfield local authority then go on to say that for fifteen minutes there may be what they call "religious observances," which consist of the reading of some verses from the Bible, chosen by the teacher, without note or comment, and the singing of a hymn. Question 5, to which the noble Earl has referred, is, "are any council 7 schools in the authority's area known to give no religious instruction?"the Huddersfield local education authority replies practically—
We give none, but we have religious observancesI think that when Huddersfield says it gives no religious teaching we may take Huddersfield at its word. There are seventeen hoard schools in Huddersfield alone. I turn almost by chance to another authority, Todmorden. There are here nine schools, and the only difference is that ton minutes instead of fifteen minutes are devoted to religious observances. The number of such cases might be largely added to from other parts of the Report.