HL Deb 27 July 1906 vol 162 cc7-12
*LORD HARRIS

rose to ask His Majesty's Government, with reference to the statement of the Secretary of State for the Colonies on June 29th, upon what information he is depending for his communications with the Portuguese authorities, and in what respects the operations of the Witwatersrand Native Labour Association have caused discontent.

The noble Lord said: My Lords, a few weeks ago I put a Question to the noble Earl the Colonial Secretary on the subject of a rumoured competition to be set up with an association which is responsible for supplying Kaffir labour to the mines on the Witwatersrand; and the noble Earl, in his reply, stated that all depended on the association having at its back the force by which it was originated, and that if it were found that there were substantial interests connected with the mines of the same nature as those for which the association was formed or that some of those who took part in the formation of the association were not satisfied with the state of things as they now existed, then the position of this co-operative or voluntary society became considerably modified. It is evident, from the further statement in his reply, that the noble Earl is already, through the usual channels, of course, in communication with the Portuguese authorities, I presume upon the subject of another association for the same purpose; and the Question I have to ask him is what has caused him to take these steps? He says that it is possible some of those who were connected with the Witwatersrand Native Labour Association are now dissatisfied. We shall be glad to know who are dissatisfied. I am informed that no complaints have been made by any members of the association, and we should like to know upon what information the noble Earl is proceeding.

In the course of the reply from which I have already quoted, the noble Earl said there was nothing whatever to conceal in this matter. In these circumstances I am sure he will be prepared to tell us the whole story as to why he is preparing to set up this competition with the Witwatersrand Native Labour Association. As I explained to your Lordships when I spoke last, the effect of competition before the war was by no means satisfactory, and I am not prepared to believe that at this moment competition would be any more satisfactory than it was then. There is no information whatever upon this subject in the Blue-book recently issued. There is a mass of information upon the subject of recruiting Chinese and employing Chinese, and of repatriating those few who are prepared to cancel their agreements and be repatriated. But there is not a word of information upon the system of recruiting Kaffirs for labour on the Witwatersrand.

I confess I do not understand why, if this subject has been under discussion between the Colonial Office and the High Commissioner, no reference is made to it in the Blue-book. Who are the persons who are dissatisfied? I have heard rumours that a certain gentleman named Wilson, who is distinguished from other gentlemen of the same name by the sobriquet of Kaffir, is very anxious to get permission to recruit in Portuguese territory; but he is not one of those to whom the noble Earl referred in his reply. He is not a person having substantial interests; neither is he one of those who took part in the formation ef the Witwatersrand Native Labour Association. I suppose there is some influential body behind who is urging the noble Earl to take these steps. I hope he will be able to tell us what that influential body is, and why it it so anxious to set up this competition.

Another question which I hope the noble Earl will be able to reply to is this, Is the High Commissioner in favour of the proposed competition being set up? There is nothing in the Blue-book about it; but, after what the noble Earl said the other day about trusting the man on the spot, I presume that he would not have commenced negotiations with Portugal on this subject without finding out whether the High Commissioner was satisfied that the setting up of another association was wise and likely to lead to satisfactory results. I can hardly believe I that the Government is very anxious to help us as regards Kaffir labour. Nobody ' can be more anxious than we are to get as much Kaffir labour as possible. It would relieve us of many accusations and and of a proportionate part of the odium which is heaped on those who have to manage the mines. We should be only too glad if the noble Earl could point out to us a safe way of securing more Kaffir labour.

I can suggest to him a way in which a small number of Kaffirs could be set free. In the Blue-book which I have referred to it appears that some inquiries have been made by Government as to the possibility of substituting white labour for coloured labour, and we know from the speeches that have been made by various members of the Government that they were at one time, and possibly are still, under the impression that to a great extent white labour could be substituted for coloured labour. I observe that in this Blue-book there is some correspondence on this subject, in particular as regards the Premier Mine, the only diamond mine in the Transvaal. It was asked, why should not white labour be substituted for Kaffir labour on the Premier Mine? The Government is largely interested in the mines of the Transvaal. It takes 10 per cent, of the profit in the case of gold mines and 60 per cent, of the profit in the case of this diamond mine. One of the reasons given for not substituting white labour was that the Government would lose £240,000 a year thereby. I observe that after that there is no further discussion about substituting white labour for Kaffir labour. But if the noble Earl will give directions that such Kaffirs as they have on the Premier Mine should be set free to go to the Witwatersrand I can assure him we shall be very grateful.

There is a strong suspicion that underlying the proposal for another association to compete in the supply of Kaffir labour there is a political movement. I am perfectly certain that it is absolutely unknown to the noble Earl and that he is entirely innocent in the matter. But there is a very strong suspicion that this is purely a political movement engineered other by extremists in this country or by those in the Transvaal who are interested in diverting the loyalty of as many Europeans as possible. It would be extremely useful to certain people if it could be said that owing to this association having been set up some influential mining association or some influential mining person could now say, "Ah ! thank Heaven I have got rid of this monopoly. I no longer want Chinese, for I can get enough Kaffir labour through this competitive supply."That is a suspicion which some people entertain with regard to this movement which is being assisted by the Secretary of State. I hope the noble Earl will be able to give such a complete and satisfactory reply as will entirely brush away this suspicion.

I ask, Why should there be any such hurry over this matter? On Tuesday of next week the noble Earl the Secretary of State for the Colonies will make, I suppose, one of the most momentous statements in this House that has over fallen to the lot of any Colonial Minister to make, one upon which decades hence —seventy, eighty, or a hundred years hence — his reputation will be judged, as his relative, Lord Durham, is now judged as regards Canada. The Government have deliberately decided that so far as Chinese labour is concerned they will leave the matter to the Transvaal. Why is there this hurry to interfere as to Kaffir recruiting when what is a matter of far greater interest to this country is left to the Transvaal? Why cannot this matter of Kaffir recruiting be also left to the Transvaal? These are questions which I venture to put to the noble Earl, and I hope he will be able to give a complete reply regarding them.

*THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR THE COLONIES (The Earl of ELGIN)

My Lords, I wish in the first place, to thank my noble friend for postponing his Question at a time when it would have been impossible for me to have answered him as completely as I can now. I think there is a little misunderstanding in the Question as the noble Earl has put it. he asks upon what information the Secretary of State is depending for his communications with the Portuguese authorities, and I noticed that in his speech he dwelt again upon communications with the Portuguese authorities. What I did say was that in these circumstances we have had to consider the necessity of communications, not only with the High Commissioner, as the noble Lord suggested, but also, possibly, with the Portuguese authorities.

The noble Lord again asks, with regards to the operations of the Witwatersrand Native Labour Association, in what respect they have caused discontent. That part of the Question it seems to me I answered, as far as I possibly could, on the last occasion. The noble Lord said that I then explained that we regarded the Witwatersrand Native Labour Association as a voluntary association, and that therefore any of its members had a right to say that they were not satisfied with it and wished other arrangements. His Majesty's Government have recognised that right, but they are not responsible for the reasons which those who wish to separate may have for their separation. But what they are responsible for—and I admitted it to the full on the last occasion—are the conditions under which recruitment takes place. I quoted then, and I refer again, to an answer given in another place, in which we laid down that we must be satisfied as to the status, the substance, and the responsibility of those who are given a second agency, and that that must be established to the satisfaction of the High Commissioner. It was because I was awaiting the decision of the High Commissioner on these points that I asked my noble friend to postpone his Question; and I hope he will rocognise that on this point, at any rate, I have observed the authority of the man on the spot.

I am glad to say that on July 7th two telegrams, one from Downing-Street and the other from South Africa, crossed each other which were expressed in such exactly parallel lines that I do not think it was necessary to give a formal answer to either; and on July 12th the High Commissioner expressed his complete acquiescence in the policy of the establishment of the second agency which we have proposed should be set up. With regard to the matter of agreement, it is briefly this—that there shall be a second agency established, the management of which has, as I have said, been approved by the High Commissioner; that we accept the position that the establishment of this second agency is sufficient in the meantime to satisfy the requirements of those who are not prepared to continue under the management of the Witwatersrand Native Labour Association; and that we shall not establish any further agency, or approve of the establishment of further agencies, until there has been such an inquiry into the whole question of recruitment as His Majesty's Government and the High Commissioner may think desirable in the circumstances.

I hope the noble Lord will admit that in those circumstances there is no justification for the suggestion, which I do not think he repeated to-day though he mentioned one particular name but which he did put forward on the last occasion, that we were going back to the policy of indiscriminate and unlimited recruitment in the interests of men who had found themselves out of an occupation which they considered profitable I do not wish, as I said on the last occasion, to conceal anything in this matter. The application came to us from a group of mines which I believe goes by the name of the Robinson group; and that is the group, with which I believe certain others may be associated, for whom the agency is proposed to be established and of which the High Commissioner has approved. With regard to the Portuguese Government, I pointed out on the last occasion that under the agreement of 1901 it was laid down that both parties should concur in the appointment of collectors of labour. In those circumstances it is, of course, necessary that the Portuguese Government should concur in this arrangement, but as it has the assent and approval of the High Commissioner I do not anticipate that there will be any difficulty in the matter.