§ THE EARL OF WEMYSSMy Lords, I rise to ask my noble friend Lord Welby, with his full concurrence, the Question standing in my name on the Paper—namely, whether he will state the sum total spent up to the present time by the London County Council in promoting and opposing Bills in Parliament. I wish in explanation to say that I ask for this information not in the least with the object of questioning the wisdom of the action of the London County Council, but there is a Bill coming forward which I think the answer to this Question will more or less affect. At present the London County Council is the only council which has the power of spending money without some check on the part of the ratepayers. The Bill which Mr. Long proposes to send up after the recess takes away that restriction, and will put all County Councils with regard to expenditure on the same footing as the London County Council. On the same day that that Bill will come before your Lordships, another measure of a similar character will he sent up entitled the Borough Funds Bill. Your Lordships will therefore see that the Question I have ventured to put on the Paper has a very material bearing on proposed legislation
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNMy Lords, before the noble Lord replies to the question I would like to suggest that the information should be given in a little more detail, and that the noble Earl should amend his question so that it would read—
To ask for a return showing, with regard to the London County Council, the names of the Bills promoted in Parliament in each year, with the sums of money spent annually in such promotion, and also whether each such 1499 Bill did or did not pass into law; secondly, the sum of money spent annually in opposing Bills in Parliament.My reason for asking for the names of Bills is this. A good many Bills have been brought up several times in succeeding years, or after an interval of one or two years, and I think it is desirable that we should know how many times these Bills have been promoted, and also the sum which has been spent in each year in promoting Bills. The second part of the question asks for the amount spent in opposing Bills each year. If my noble friend could give those figures it would add to our information and be extremely useful.
§ THE EARL OF WEMYSSI quite agree with the proposed Amendment of my Question, which merely gives the information more in detail.
§ LORD WELBYI am not quite sure whether my noble friend is entirely in order in putting a question to a private Member of this House. But I am in the hands of your Lordships, and if the House has no objection to such a practice—
§ THE EARL OF WEMYSSMy noble friend is hardly a private Member.
§ LORD WELBYCertainly I am. But if the House is willing that this Question should be put, I have no objection to giving the information asked for. I will put it in this way. During the time the London County Council has been in existence the average expenditure has been between £18,000 and £19,000 a year. There would be no difficulty in giving a return such as is asked for by my noble friend Lord Camperdown, but it would be well first to see the terms in which it is desired. It is only within the last year or two that His Majesty's Government have given considerable powers of spending money to the Metropolitan boroughs. Therefore the policy which is now being followed by the London County Council is in accordance with the policy advocated by His Majesty's Government.
§ EARL SPENCERI have some doubt as to the propriety of putting such 1500 interrogations, and I question if they are in order. Though my noble friend Lord Welby is chairman of the Finance Committee of the London County Council he sits in this House in a perfectly private capacity. I think it would be exceedingly awkward to have Returns made from the County Council to this House. If this practice is allowed we might have Questions of all sorts asked of private Members.
§ THE LORD CHANCELLORThe noble Lord was good enough to refer to me, and I said that you may ask anything you please here if the noble Lord to whom the question is put, chooses to answer it. But I am bound to mention to your. Lordships that the question has been raised on a point of order in the other House, where they are a little more strict in these matters, and it has been distinctly ruled by the Speaker that such questions cannot be allowed.
THE EARL OF MORLEYSurely it. would be a very inconvenient practice if Returns were given to the House merely on the initiative of a private Member. I think that would be wholly out of order. If the noble Lord chooses to answer the question put to him the House, I take it, would be very happy to hear him; but I think it is certainly out of order and irregular to. ask a private Member for a Return.
§ LORD BALFOUR OF BURLEIGHThere is no objection to giving the information, but the regular course would have been to ask the representative of the Local Government Board in this. House whether he could get the information from the London County Council. The Return would then be given by the consent of the Government after communication with the London County Council. It seems to me that that would have been the reasonable course to pursue.
THE EARL OF CAMPERDOWNI quite agree with what the Secretary for Scotland and the Leader of the Opposition have said, and will put down a Motion asking for the Return which I mentioned.