ELEMENTARY EDUCATION BILL. (Hansard, 3 August 1900)

The LORD PRESIDENT OF THE COUNCIL (The Duke of VENONSHIRE)
My Lords, this is a small measure relating to a considerable variety of subjects connected with education, which has been passed without amendment through the other House. It may properly be described as an omnibus Bill, containing as it does proposals for the amendment of the law in various matters which have been found to require amendment in the course of the administration of the numerous Education Acts. The first clause enables the average attendance for the purpose of the fee grant to be calculated in the same way as for the annual grant. The two calculations at present are made in different ways, and that has been found to result in considerable inconvenience. The second clause, as to which I shall have something to say in a moment, enables boards of guardians to contribute towards the support of public elementary schools to which children under their charge are sent. The third clause relieves an injustice under the Elementary Education (Blind and Deaf Children) Act, 1893, under which a parish which is in a school board district has to defray all its own expenses, and to contribute to the expenses of parishes in the same urban or rural district which have not got school boards. This clause has the concurrence of the Local Government Board. The first sub-section of Clause 4 is intended to make provision for the conveyance of children to and from industrial schools, and incidental to the sending out of children on licence. The Home Office and the Local Government Board have been consulted, and concur in the expediency of this clause. The second sub-section of the same clause enables local authorities to contribute towards the ultimate disposal of children sent to in- 576 dustrial schools at their instance. This provision is also inserted on the recommendation of the Home Office. The fifth clause provides that where two or more school boards combine for the establishment of a joint industrial school under a joint body of managers, the enactments relating to the audit of school board accounts shall apply as if the joint body of managers were a school board. That clause has been inserted on the recommendation of the Local Government Board and the Home Office. The first sub-section of Clause 6 allows local bye-laws to be made requiring school attendance up to the age of fourteen, instead of thirteen, as at present. The various Acts are extremely complicated, and to a certain extent conflicting, on this subject, and endless trouble is entailed both on the Education Department and on the local authorities by the inconsistencies of the present law. The second sub-section of the same clause raises from 5s. to £1 the maximum fine for a breach of the bye-law requiring attendance. It has been found that many parents prefer to pay a fine of 5s. rather than lose the value of the child's work. The third sub-section of the same clause provides that Section 74 of the Elementary Education Act, 1870, shall have effect as if the sanction therein referred to were the sanction of the Board of Education instead of the sanction of Her Majesty in Council. Clause 7 enacts that in paragraph 2 of the First Schedule to the Elementary Education Act, 1876 (which relates to the standard of previous due attendance at a certified efficient school), 350 shall be substituted for 250. This Bill, as I have said, has passed through the other House without amendment, although the Vice-President of the Council undertook that a small verbal Amendment, which I shall move, should be made in this House. The only clause which gave rise to any difference of opinion was that which enables guardians to contribute equitably to the support of a school to which children under their charge are sent. The case is this: it has long been the practice to send children who were formerly educated within the poorhouse itself, to the nearest elementary school, and it is considered by the local authorities, as well as by the educational authorities, that it is a great deal better that pauper children should be thus treated. Obviously, it is a hardship upon the ratepayers if the parish in which the 577 workhouse is situated is called upon to bear the cost of the education of the whole union, and this Bill enables the guardians to distribute the cost equitably over the whole union. It has also become of late to a very considerable extent the practice, instead of maintaining children in the workhouse, for guardians to send them out into country districts, either into homes or to lie boarded out. Their education also falls upon the parish from which they are sent, and in cases where these children are boarded out in large numbers it may constitute a heavy burden on the parish. It is for the purpose of meeting these cases that this clause is inserted. It is one of voluntary application, and the guardians are not bound to make this contribution unless satisfied as to its expediency. This clause is obviously a just one, but it was discovered, by, I think, some captious critics in the other House, that the principle of aiding Voluntary schools out of the rates might be involved, and some opposition was raised to the clause on that account. I can only repeat what was said by the Vice-President, that no such intention was ever dreamt of by the framers of this Bill. It was simply introduced as an act of justice, to achieve the objects I have already explained. I do not think that, upon consideration, your Lordships will hold that any dangerous principle is involved in this clause. I do not know whether any noble Lord present would wish to have an opportunity of discussing the Bill more fully, but as the session is drawing to a close I believe it would be convenient if the Bill could be put through all its stages to-night, because it will have to go back to the House of Commons for that House to agree to the Amendments which I shall move. But if any noble Lord should desire to further discuss the matter I will defer the Committee stage till Monday.

THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY
My Lords, I cannot say that I regard the whole of this Bill with satisfaction. My objections apply principally to the second clause, and are in the direction indicated by the noble Duke. With regard to all the clauses after that, I have nothing to say. I believe them to be beneficial and 578 very useful clauses. If I had had more opportunity of making myself thoroughly acquainted with the first clause, to which, I understand, very considerable objection is raised, I should have had something to say with regard to it; but as I do not understand the precise mode in which the calculation of the average attendance will be made under this clause, I shall only observe that I am informed that it is expected it will bear hardly on many schools and diminish their efficiency. As to the second clause, I entirely sympathise with the desire to facilitate the sending of children from the workhouse to schools outside. I know, from my own experience, that this is most beneficial to the children, and I can conceive nothing more desirable than that this practice should be extended. But my objection is the same as that which the noble Duke said was raised by certain captious critics in the other House—it is that you are for the first time, so far as I know, going to authorise the application of the rates to the support of Voluntary schools. Not only that, they are to contribute towards "the expenses of providing, enlarging, or maintaining" these schools. I have no objection to their contributing to Voluntary schools where there are no other schools available, but I most strongly object to the principle that the rates of the whole union should be applied to the support of a Voluntary school without the board of guardians being directly represented on the management. I am perfectly certain the noble Duke will find that the feeling on that point is stronger than he supposes. I think it is only right that where schools are made use of by the whole union, the expense should not fall on the particular parish in which the workhouse happens to be situated; but you ought, in common justice, to give the board of guardians representation on the board of management of the school. You are going for the first time in the history of our education policy to allow the rates to be applied to the support and even the building of Voluntary schools, and I think you will find that you have thrown down an apple of discord, the effect of which can only be allayed by giving to boards of guardians a distinct share in the management of schools which receive money from the rates under this Bill. I will not throw any impediment in the way of the Government carrying the Bill through all its stages this evening; but I think 579 the Bill ought to have been brought on at a time of the session when it could have received proper consideration from the House.

§ THE DUKE OF DEVONSHIRE
My Lords, with reference to the observations of the noble Earl opposite on this clause, I can only say, as was pointed out in the discussion on the Second Reading of the Bill in the other House, that this power which is conferred upon boards of guardians is wholly optional. It is within their discretion to take such precautions as they may think necessary in order to prevent any misapplication of the funds. If, as the noble Earl suggests, the board of guardians ought to be represented upon the committee of management of the school to which money is contributed, they have ample power to make that a condition of their assistance. It seems scarcely necessary to insist upon their being represented on the committee of management if they are satisfied that that power is not requisite.

THE EARL OF KIMBERLEY
I think it is a very reasonable thing, as I have already said, that the rates should be applied in this case, otherwise a very beneficent change in the management of workhouse children would be frequently obstructed. But I still think it ought not to be optional whether or not the guardians should be represented on the committee of management, because, in my opinion, that is a point of principle. I object on principle to public money being given out of the rates in support of denominational schools without the body contributing having a distinct voice in the management. If the noble Duke will forgive me for saying so, I do not think the explanation given by the Vice-President in any way removes that objection.