HC Deb 01 March 2004 vol 418 cc603-5
6. Mr. Robert Syms (Poole) (Con)

If he will make a statement on the future of the aircraft carrier programme. [156734]

The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence(Mr. Adam Ingram)

The future carrier programme is currently in stage 3 of the assessment phase. Design work is progressing, as are discussions on the alliance strategy, which remains our preferred approach to delivering the capability to our time and cost targets. Our target in-service dates remain 2012 and 2015.

Mr. Syms

There has been a lot of debate, certainly in the press, about the size, capability and cost of this welcome project. Originally, British Aerospace and the Ministry of Defence hoped to agree a firm design for the project by this April. Is the Minister holding to that April date or will it be missed?

Mr. Ingram

Work is progressing on the assessment phase and is due to continue until spring this year. At that point, Ministers will consider proposals on the overall CVF—carrier vessel future—programme and make a decision on when to proceed to the next phases, demonstration and manufacturing, of the project.

Mr. Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)

Does my right hon. Friend agree that the two carriers not only add to the defence capacity of the United Kingdom but will also give a great boost to the regional economies in areas such as the north-east? Can he give the House an assurance that those orders will not be cut, as is being suggested in some quarters of the Opposition?

Mr. Ingram

We have no plans to cut the programme. My hon. Friend may be referring to others who are developing programmes that would have such an implication were they ever to get into power. A cut of £1.5 billion for defence might mean only one aircraft carrier, but if there were two carriers, such a cut would mean fewer aircraft or a smaller Army; it is not for me to answer on what others are saying about their future programme. We shall continue with the project and my hon. Friend is right that it means a lot for the north-east, the Clyde and the rest of the UK shipbuilding industry.

Mr. John Wilkinson (Ruislip-Northwood) (Con)

Is not the programme crucial to the fleet, which already faces a grievous air defence gap between the elimination of the Sea Harriers from service in about 2005 and the earliest date for entry into service of carrier—embarked joint strike fighters in 2012? Can the Minister assure the House that there will be no further slippage either in defining the design or in the time scale for entry into service? If that were to occur, he would open up the fleet to exceptional vulnerability.

Mr. Ingram

We have had a lot of debate about the Sea Harriers and it has been explained time and again why that military judgment was made. The upgrade would have been very expensive and there were also technical difficulties. On protection of the fleet, we have also said that the highest likelihood is that we would always be in coalition with our allies, so we should have that combined defence. The hon. Gentleman makes another important point, which is about the future size of the fleet. Perhaps he should ask the shadow Chancellor about the implications for defence if £1.5 billion were cut from defence expenditure. There is an old adage, "If the enemy isn't in front of you, he's behind you." The hon. Gentleman's enemy is sitting in front of him.

Mr. Brian Jenkins (Tamworth) (Lab)

Will my right hon. Friend assure the House that no progress will he made on the construction of that programme until. before it goes to the gateway, every risk reduction strategy has been developed, it meets the criteria set down under smart acquisition and it is not in danger of becoming another legacy project, similar to those we inherited from the previous Administration, which went over-time and over-cost?

Mr. Ingram

My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We need to ensure that we do everything we can to reduce risk in the programme, but of course, we are facing inherited programmes where such sophisticated planning was not undertaken early enough. The Government have learned lessons from that and we shall do everything we can to ensure that those elements of the project are adhered to. My hon. Friend is right to raise the matter as he did.

Mr. Nicholas Soames (Mid-Sussex) (Con)

May I start by saying what a pleasure it is to see the Secretary of State back and in such good form after his political near-death experience? Can the Minister assure the House that the main gate approval date for the future carrier programme will not slip further? When will he actually be able to make an announcement on the programme and will agreement with the contractors be reached by April?

Mr. Ingram

I should welcome the hon. Gentleman to the Dispatch Box; we had a sweep running on whether he would turn up to ask a question as he is clearly embarrassed by his non-involvement in the development of his party's future spending programmes, if the Conservatives were ever to get into power.

The hon. Gentleman asked about the future of the carrier programme. I set it out in my answer to his hon. Friend the Member for Poole (Mr. Syms). The in-service date is still as set down and, as I said in answer to a previous question, we have to ensure that we are smart and are very specific about the way in which we develop the programme. Every announcement on the details of the next phase of the project will be made on time, when we are ready to give the information. The hon. Member for Mid-Sussex (Mr. Soames) should not expect anything other than that from us.

Mr. Soames

I thank the Minister for his concern for my welfare, but Conservative Members are entirely satisfied with the shadow Chancellor's robust and assured commitment to defence.

Is the Minister aware that any delay, leaving this country with no aircraft carriers at all in the early years of the next decade, will result in a serious gap in our expeditionary capability?

Mr. Ingram

That obviously has to be worked against, which is why we have a decommissioning timetable for the three current carriers that is consistent with the in-service date of the new carriers. No one can predict with certainty 10 years ahead, but the reality is that the programme will deliver what we have already announced and improve immeasurably this country's expeditionary war-fighting resources.

Mr. Lindsay Hoyle (Chorley) (Lab)

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his and the Government's commitment to the two carriers, but will he assure me that he will not rule out different options for different types of aircraft using this platform around the world? Will he keep the options open for the future?

Mr. Ingram

I suspect that my hon. Friend is asking about the modernisation of Typhoon. We have already ruled that out and have no plans to change our mind.