HC Deb 22 June 2004 vol 422 cc1167-8
4. Dr. Vincent Cable (Twickenham) (LD)

If he will make a statement on the funding arrangements for the British Transport police. [179612]

The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr. Alistair Darling)

The British Transport police are funded primarily by the rail industry, and this year its budget of £162 million includes funding for 100 extra officers on the London underground.

Dr. Cable

Is it not fundamentally unsound that a key part of the British police service that not only enforces law and order on trains and at stations but conducts sophisticated anti-terrorist operations on the underground and at mainline stations should be dependent on grudging and capricious contributions from the private rail companies? Can the Minister not insist that those companies fund the British Transport police at the same level as the rest of the police force?

Mr. Darling

I do not think that it is wrong that the railway industry funds the British Transport police. The hon. Gentleman will be aware that, as the Government fund quite a lot of the railway, public money is going to the transport police one way or another. We have just set up a new police authority that will have the job of looking at the budget needed by the British Transport police, especially in light of the report by Her Majesty's inspectorate to be published tomorrow. It shows that certain aspects of the force need to be looked at, and it has the power to get money from the industry to the police. However, the budget has been increased by about £25 million, and the Government have funded £2 million-worth of expenditure on the anti-terrorism measures mentioned by the hon. Gentleman. Money is therefore going into the force, and force numbers have been increased.

Mrs. Gwyneth Dunwoody (Crewe and Nantwich) (Lab)

The Secretary of State will nevertheless be aware that the increase in force numbers was needed because on the London underground and the overground trains British Transport police are being called on to do more to contribute to security. Will he insist that the new police authority tells the train companies that they must pay up and look cheerful, as they need those dedicated forces and had better get on and find the cash?

Mr. Darling

I agree with much of what my hon. Friend said.

Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)

Smile then.

Mr. Darling

How can one smile when talking about railway finances? Believe me, it is simply not possible. Every day, I go to the office and see a black cloud hanging above my desk, but I shall try to be cheerful. My hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Mrs. Dunwoody), however, is absolutely right—the British Transport police do a first-class job, and we are asking them to do more. In the current climate, we are likely to ask them to increase the amount of activity that they undertake, which is why it is important that the organisation is properly equipped and funded. I believe that that can and will be done, and we are looking at it in the context of the railway review.

Mr. Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)

Is the problem not whether the Secretary of State is cheerful but that he is complacent? There is more violent crime, fewer detections and, notwithstanding his remarks about increased numbers of transport police on the underground, there will be a reduction of 150 transport police on the overground as a result of the £40 million deficit in the British Transport police pension fund, which only last year Ministers assured us was in surplus. The running costs for the new police authority are six times higher than forecast, so why do the Government not apologise for that manifest failure?

Mr. Darling

The hon. Gentleman is wrong about police numbers—they will not be reduced. As for crime, yes, it has increased in some respects, but on the other hand theft on the London underground and criminal damage to railway carriages has been reduced. Detection rates for robbery have gone up. I am certainly not going to say to the House that there are not still problems and more that needs to be done, but the hon. Gentleman is quite wrong to claim that police numbers are to decrease. They are not. They will remain exactly as they are at present. As I said earlier, there will be 100 extra officers for the London underground.