§ 6. Mr. Michael Weir (Angus) (SNP)What recent discussions she has had with the Fisheries Ministers of (a) Norway, (b) Iceland and (c) the Faroes. [185747]
§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Mr. Ben Bradshaw)I discussed fisheries issues with Nordic ambassadors last month and I hope to visit Norway, Iceland and the Faroes soon. All three were represented at this week's annual conference of the International Whaling Commission at which, on behalf of the United Kingdom, I strongly criticised their support for the resumption of commercial whaling.
§ Mr. WeirHas the Under-Secretary discussed fishing issues in his meetings with those Ministers? The common fisheries policy meant a management regime that is unacceptable to most fishing communities, yet the Norwegian, Icelandic and Faroese have all created more environmentally friendly and sustainable fishery management regimes, especially through the inclusion of fishermen, community leaders and other stakeholders. Does he believe that the European constitution's inclusion of article 12, which establishes exclusive EU competence, gives any scope for the development of such a scheme in Scotland, or is there to be even more centralisation and destruction of our industry?
§ Mr. BradshawIt is wrong to suggest that the proposed constitution changes the competence on fisheries in the European Union. I am aware of the hon. 474 Gentleman's support for withdrawal from the EU. It did not do his party much good in the recent European elections in Scotland, where its vote dropped substantially. However, we are keen to learn from best practice in other countries, as the Prime Minister's strategy unit makes clear.
I urge the hon. Gentleman to examine exactly what has happened in the Faroes and Iceland. The capacity of their fleets has reduced massively. If we adopted the same effort control as the Faroes, we would have to cut the amount of fish that we catch in the North sea by almost half. I do not believe that he would like that.
§ Kali Mountford (Colne Valley) (Lab)When considering the preservation of fish stocks, will my hon. Friend take into account the effect on marine mammals? He has already mentioned whaling, and my constituents will be grateful for his comments. Is he also concerned about the welfare of dolphins? If we are not careful about our fishing methods, are not the lives of those lovely marine mammals at risk?
§ Mr. BradshawYes, my hon. Friend is right. She may have noticed that, this morning, we announced that we would seek the closure of the Bass pair trawl fishery off the south-west of England because of concerns about the stranding of dolphins and porpoises. We are asking for emergency action by the Commission under article 7. We have also made it clear that, if the action is unsuccessful, we are prepared to consider unilateral measures, which will help to prevent such carnage.
§ Mr. Robert Key (Salisbury) (Con)Has the Minister discussed with the Ministers of Norway, Iceland and the Faroes their important freshwater fisheries and the shared problem of pollution of our rivers, especially through sewage overflow, endocrine disruptors and phosphorous?
§ Mr. BradshawI have not yet had the opportunity to discuss those matters, but I hope that I shall shortly. I am aware of the problem. I draw the hon. Gentleman's attention to the recent Environment Agency report, which showed that the state of the rivers and most of the stocks in them in this country were better than they have ever been. However, we can always improve and we are especially worried about, for example, the amount of salmon in many rivers in my part of the world, where they were previously abundant.
§ Andrew George (St. Ives) (LD)I welcome today's announcement of the Government's request for emergency measures to close the Bass pair trawl fishery, which, as the Under-Secretary said, is known to result in the deaths of many thousands of dolphins and porpoises. Will the Government make similarly robust and determined efforts, through Europe and with the co-operation of Norway, the Faroes and Iceland, on industrial fisheries and the introduction of a meaningful regional dimension to fisheries management?
§ Mr. BradshawWe made some progress on industrial fisheries at the last December Council, in that we introduced a reduction in the total allowable catch and, for the first time, an effort control regime in those fisheries. On regional management, we are making good 475 progress on establishing the regional advisory councils. The United Kingdom will always look for ways in which we can make improvements to the common fisheries policy to set it on course for a profitable and sustainable future, in contrast to the cruel deception perpetrated by some parties who suggest that we could solve all our fisheries problems if we simply withdrew from the CFP, which would also mean withdrawing from the European Union.
§ Mr. Kelvin Hopkins (Luton, North) (Lab)I had hoped to get in on question 1 and ask my hon. Friend whether he had any information on the stocks of grayling. Unfortunately, I was unable to do so. [HON. MEMBERS: "Grayling's off!"] We are obviously one short here today.
More seriously, does my hon. Friend have precise figures for the fish stocks in Norwegian and British national waters before the introduction of the common fisheries policy that could be compared with the level of stocks today?
§ Mr. BradshawI do not have those figures to hand, but I will ask my officials to dig them out and to write to my hon. Friend. I repeat what I said to the hon. Member for Angus (Mr. Weir): Iceland, Norway and the Faroes have undergone substantial reductions in the capacity of their fleets. They use different means of managing their fish stocks—indeed, the methods used by Iceland and the Faroes are quite different from each other—and those methods are not problem-free. We have a more complicated mixed fishery. We are much closer to the European mainland, and we have scores of different stocks that we have traditionally shared with other countries. So we face a more complex set of challenges.
In response to the question on grayling that you very generously allowed, Mr. Speaker, I can report that the stocks of grayling in our rivers and streams are extremely healthy. I recommend that my hon. Friend the Member for Luton, North (Mr. Hopkins) read the recent Environment Agency report on this subject, which shows that that is largely a result of measures that the Government have taken to clean up our rivers.
§ Mr. Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)I accept what the Minister says about the welcome reduction in the total allowable catch for industrial fishing that was achieved last year. He will be aware, however, that fishermen, fishery scientists and fisheries managers in the Nordic Council countries are still scathing about the unsustainable level of industrial fishing that we maintain. When are the Government going to get real about the need to tackle the level of permitted industrial fishing under the common fisheries policy? Does the Minister share my disappointment that the Prime Minister's strategy unit report was absolutely silent on that issue?
§ Mr. BradshawNo, I do not accept that at all. The Prime Minister's strategy unit report was the first comprehensive, strategic look at the future of our fishing industry in living memory. It pointed out that, if we get our capacity right, our fishermen and their communities can have a profitable and sustainable future. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will work with the Government and the fishing industry to ensure that the recommendations 476 are implemented. I agree with him on industrial fishing; that is a case that United Kingdom Governments of both political colours have been making for some time, and we are making those arguments more and more successfully. We must, however, have the science to back those arguments up and, this year, we are again investing more than £1 million in scientific collaboration with fishermen to get the evidence that we need to make the case that the hon. Gentleman advanced. I repeat that it is simplistic to think that we can adopt the systems that are used in countries such as Iceland, Norway and the Faroes, which have very different fisheries from ours.
§ Paddy Tipping (Sherwood) (Lab)What progress did my hon. Friend make at the International Whaling Commission on the demise of so-called scientific whaling and, more importantly, on developing a conservation agenda?
§ Mr. BradshawI am pleased to report that the countries led by Britain, the so-called like-minded countries, were successful in regard to the main issues of concern, namely Japanese attempts to introduce secret voting in the IWC, to close one of the biggest whale sanctuaries in the southern oceans and to lift the moratorium on commercial whaling. However, the majority that we have had in the IWC over the years is slowly being eroded by an aggressive recruitment campaign by the Japanese of small, mainly poor and developing countries that appear to have no obvious interest in hunting whales, whose representatives suddenly turn up and read out speeches supporting the Japanese position and vote with the Japanese. This is a serious issue, and we and the countries that agree with us on whaling really have to get our act together if we are to prevent a reverse of the advances that have been made in conserving the whale in the past 20 years.
§ Mr. John Whittingdale (Maldon and East Chelmsford) (Con)Is it not the case that one advantage enjoyed by fishermen in Norway, Iceland and the Faroes is that they are not covered by the working time directive? Does he accept that the nature of fishing makes it wholly inappropriate to impose limits on working times, and will he say whether the Government intend to make exceptions for fishing based on the compensatory rest proposals that have been submitted by the industry? If so, on what basis will those exceptions operate?
§ Mr. BradshawDiscussions on the working time directive are going on at the moment. I will examine the issue that the hon. Gentleman raises, and write to him.