HC Deb 06 January 2004 vol 416 cc227-38

Motion made, and Question proposed, That this House do now adjourn.—[Gillian Merron.]

4.42 pm
David Maclean (Penrith and The Border) (Con)

Cumbria learning and skills council has proposed a new purpose-built sixth-form college in Carlisle, which would have a planned capacity of 1,150. The proposals would mean the end of school sixth forms in the area. Those schools would become schools for 11 to 16-year-olds and the further education college would offer vocational courses while the sixth-form college provided academic courses.

There are currently seven schools with sixth forms in Carlisle and district and a further education college. The funding for the new college would come from the learning and skills council and it is estimated that it would cost around £12 million. Major criticisms of the proposals have been made locally, stemming from teachers, parents and pupils. The criticisms fall into three broad categories: first, the lack of strategic thinking by the LSC; secondly, the one-size-fits-all approach; and, thirdly, the lack of consultation.

On the lack of strategic thinking, millions of pounds of public funds have been pumped into school sixth forms in the area over the last 10 or 15 years. With the establishment of a new sixth-form college, they will be closed down and the money will be wasted. The proposal will add 1,000 surplus places, leaving many new buildings empty and possibly even leading to school closures. According to teachers and parents, the LSC appears to have no partnership with Cumbria local education authority. No meaningful dialogue appears to have taken place between the two organisations regarding the proposal. When asked, the LSC has insisted repeatedly that its responsibilities lie in education for students aged between 16 and 19, with the LEA overseeing 11 to 16-year-olds. However, the impact of the proposal on education for 11 to 16-year-olds will be very significant.

Local people submit that the LSC will tear the guts out of schools such as Caldew school in Dalston, other schools in Carlisle, and the William Howard school in Brampton in my constituency. In the context of tonight's debate, I shall express my particular concern about the latter school. The county council will be left with a shambles, where now there is coherent provision for post-16 education. The LSC seems to be saying, "That has nothing to do with us, guv. Our remit does not cover that." However, that is not joined-up government, and the LSC's approach is not good enough.

The second area of criticism is the one-size-fits-all approach. Seven school sixth forms will close if the proposal goes ahead. The people of Carlisle and the surrounding district will be left with no choice in the provision of sixth-form education. Parents in Carlisle and the local area have a choice of sixth forms. Even children in my constituency, who face enormous travel difficulties, have a choice. Admittedly, if they opt for a school that is not in the official catchment area they may have a transport problem, but at least they still have a choice. That will be destroyed if this one-size-fits-all approach is implemented.

Parents and teachers also criticise the proposals because they fail to consider the travelling distances involved for children attending a new sixth-form college in Carlisle. There is a lack of public transport provision for children travelling into Carlisle from surrounding rural communities. Travelling very long distances every day can have a detrimental impact on a child's standard of work.

The proposals also fail to consider the nature of rural communities, and the benefits that sixth forms, such as the one at William Howard school, can have for local communities. Those benefits include teacher employment and community cohesion and identity. I shall quote the governors of Caldew school in Dalston. They belong to the constituency of the hon. Member for Carlisle (Mr. Martlew), but they wrote to me because they feel that the argument applies to their school as much as to William Howard school in Brampton. They state: We are not a Carlisle school and serve a far flung rural catchment area. By the definition of the LSC we are serving a super sparse population. Agriculture, tourism and craft industries are important components of the local economy, which centres on small scale businesses. As a school we found ourselves at the epicentre of the Foot and Mouth epidemic of two years ago in Cumbria and welcome the commitment to rural areas which followed in its wake through such organisations as the Rural Action Zone. Sadly, the potential decision to remove our Sixth Form, one of those services critical to our young people's life chances, represents a backward step destined once again to marginalise the needs of the rural community in the interests of perceived cost effectiveness. We can only be dismayed by the negative impact that such a blow would have on local morale. The same arguments apply exactly to the William Howard school in my constituency. The proposals also fail to consider that some of the schools affected are very high achieving schools with good participation rates. William Howard school is a successful and high achieving school, as are other schools in the Carlisle district. Its staying-on rate, retention rate and results at A and AS levels are above not only the Cumbria average but the national average, and they have been so for a considerable number of years. The school offers a wide rage of subjects and opportunities at sixth-form level.

The one-size-fits-all approach to education will not suit all children in the Carlisle and district area. It will not cater for their differing needs. Many children prefer learning in a smaller, more familiar environment.

The third major criticism of the proposals has to do with the poor consultation. I say that the consultation process has been poor, but most parents and teachers would say that there has been a total lack of consultation. The LSC failed to consult schools in arriving at its proposal. Not one school in the area was visited by a member of the LSC prior to the publication of the proposal. One school for 11 to 16-year-olds—the Lochinvar school—was left out of the consultation altogether.

I am told that the night that LSC representatives arrived at William Howard school to outline the plans to parents, teachers and pupils was the first time that members of the LSC had walked through the school's doors. I understand that it was the same in other schools in the area. Of course, the LSC claims that it is only consulting on its plan, but it has invented a detailed plan to remove seven sixth forms from schools in the Carlisle area without a single word of consultation beforehand, and that cannot be right.

Little understanding was shown by members of the LSC of the way in which schools work. There was no acknowledgment of the role of older pupils in school—for example, in working with young pupils in sport, music, drama and paired reading schemes. Older students encourage younger ones to enter further education, and they raise aspirations. In most schools with sixth forms, older pupils—fifth and sixth years—are role models for younger pupils. Key questions were also sidestepped during discussions between local parents and members of the LSC, and that did not encourage much confidence in the proposals.

My purpose today is to put to the Minister some of the key questions that were asked by parents and governors at William Howard school and were not answered by the LSC. The schools involved have followed up by writing to and e-mailing the LSC to demand answers, but they still have not received replies to their crucial questions. I do not expect the Minister to be able to answer the questions that I have posed tonight and I am sorry that I have not had the chance to give him a long appreciation of my speech—he has had a copy for a few hours only. However, I assume that he will write a long, detailed letter to me that sets out the answers to my questions. That is my preferred option so that I may circulate copies to parents and teachers. The answers are vital if parents, governors, teachers and pupils are to be at least half-persuaded that the LSC takes their concerns seriously and is engaged in genuine consultation.

I have several questions. First, why did the independent consultant or the LSC not visit William Howard school, or any of the other schools, and speak to the head teacher before drawing up their proposals? Secondly, how do the A-level results at William Howard school compare with the average results of sixth-form colleges in Britain, and do the Minister and the LSC believe that a sixth-form college in Carlisle could improve further on those results? Thirdly, will the Minister or the LSC specify what, if any, lack or inadequacy of sixth-form provision there is at William Howard that a sixth-form college in Carlisle would address or improve?

Fourthly, when reaching a decision on whether William Howard school should be included in the proposals, will the question whether WHS students would be better off be paramount in the consideration? Fifthly, what additional subjects are likely to be offered at a sixth-form college in Carlisle? Sixthly, what consideration has been given to the very significant issues that would arise relating to school transport from all the outlying areas if the sixth-form class was moved from William Howard school to Carlisle? At the moment, buses that pick up students to take them to William Howard school cover 10, 15, 20 or even 30 miles. If those buses have to add another 12 to 13 miles to get into Carlisle, the journey will become unacceptably long. Seventhly, what assessment has been made of the impact that the proposal will have on attendance rates for children from rural communities in further education? That is related to the previous question, because if children have to travel a much longer distance to a huge new college in Carlisle, it will have an impact on the numbers who decide to enter further education.

Eighthly, what assessment has been made of the impact that there will be on traffic congestion in Carlisle if the proposal goes ahead? That is not a silly or facetious question. We all know that the centre of Carlisle has a tremendous problem with traffic congestion, and if we add many buses coming in to a new college—which is likely to be placed in the centre of Carlisle—the problems will be enormous. It is not good enough for the LSC to say that that is not a problem for it to consider because it can be sorted out before its plans are finalised.

Ninthly, what assessment has been made of the impact of the proposal on teachers' jobs in and around Carlisle? Tenthly, what weight will be attached to the fact that if the William Howard sixth form is closed many pupils will have to make journeys of 30 or 40 miles a day if Carlisle is their only option?

Eleventh, what consideration has been given to the number of surplus places that will be created if all sixth-form education is centred on one college? Furthermore, what discussions has the LSC held—or what discussions does it plan to hold—with Cumbria county council on how to deal with the huge number of surplus places its decision will create? That is a fundamental question, which I submit to the Minister. It goes back to one of the key criticisms of the proposal. Surely, it cannot be right for the LSC to say, "We shall reorganise education for 16 to 19-year-olds in the Carlisle area and here is our master plan. We accept that we shall leave a shambles behind because all the schools and the local education authority will have to sort out their hundreds of surplus places, but it's nothing to do with us. It's not in our remit. We're not interested. We don't care." That is not joined-up government, as I said earlier.

Twelfth, what consideration has been given to the impact of the proposals on the aspirations of 11 to 16-year-olds in schools that could lose their sixth form? On a linked question, what about the aspirations of teachers? If the proposal goes ahead, no doubt many teachers will want to teach at a sixth-form college. Does that mean that the schools will fight over the best available teachers to teach 11 to 16-year-olds? Everyone will agree that teachers who teach across the whole spectrum of 11 to 19-year-old education are in a better position than those who merely teach one segment.

Finally, will the LSC consider transitional arrangements whereby if the sixth-form college proposal goes ahead in Carlisle city, the sixth forms in the rural areas can run in tandem for a year or two while the system beds in and the college gets up to speed and reaches the same high standard of education as the current high achieving, well established sixth forms at William Howard and at Caldew in Dalston? I am sure that the hon. Member for Carlisle (Mr. Martlew) will not mind my mentioning the latter school.

If the sixth-form college proves to be any good, parents will no doubt vote with their feet, as they do at present. There will thus be little opposition to the closure of other sixth forms in rural schools in subsequent years if the Carlisle college is all that the LSC cracks it up to be.

Those are important questions and I hasten to add that none of them was invented by me; they were all put by parents when the LSC visited William Howard to tell them of its proposals. Because the questions were sidestepped and the parents received no answers that evening, they followed them up by e-mail and letters, yet I understand that they still have no satisfactory answers.

I do not expect the Minister to address those questions tonight; that would be unreasonable. I do not expect the LSC to have thoroughly briefed him on the high-handed, incompetent approach it adopted in Cumbria, but I do expect that, perhaps within three weeks, I shall receive a long, detailed letter from him setting out the answers to the questions.

As the chairman of governors of William Howard said in her letter to the chairman of the Cumbria LSC: The LSC would have to show beyond any doubt that students currently at William Howard would be better off than they are now to come anywhere near a convincing justification for the inclusion of the school in its proposal and the resulting destruction of what has been established. This it is completely unable to do. The governing body of William Howard School is therefore totally opposed to the inclusion of the school in the proposal for a Sixth Form College in Carlisle. Given all the relevant facts and figures such an inclusion would result in what could only be described as an act of 'educational vandalism'. I therefore appeal to the Minister to send the Cumbria LSC back to the drawing board to allow it to think again and withdraw these damaging proposals.

4.59 pm
Mr. Eric Martlew (Carlisle) (Lab)

I congratulate the right hon. Member for Penrith and The Border (David Maclean) on securing the debate and on using his position as Opposition Chief Whip to provide us with about three hours in which to hold it.

I thank my right hon. Friend the Minister for Lifelong Learning, Further and Higher Education for spending an hour with me yesterday discussing the proposals. I still have some questions for him; I think that the right hon. Member for Penrith and The Border may have already asked the first one, but it needs a categorical answer. Will my right hon. Friend confirm that the LSC's proposals are only for consultation and that no decision has been taken, either by the Government or the LSC, that they should be the final proposals? Secondly, will my right hon. Friend tell us about the procedure that can be used to support or oppose any LSC proposal before he makes a decision? I realise—I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman does too—that we will get few answers out of my right hon. Friend today because, at the end of the day, he will have to take a decision, so we would not expect him to be specific.

I shall deal quickly with the points made by the right hon. Gentleman. I suspect that we would not be debating this issue if every school in the Carlisle area were as good as William Howard school. Many people were surprised to see William Howard school included in the proposals—I am sure that its inclusion will be discussed—but the fact is that, overall, the number of youngsters who stay on at school and get adequate A-levels in the Carlisle area is below the county and the national averages. The number of youngsters who leave in the lower sixth form is very high in some schools.

The reality is that we in Carlisle are underachieving, and the LSC is right to point out that problem, but I call its proposal the nuclear option, as it was designed to upset the maximum possible number of people. It has achieved that aim to some extent, but it has put the issue on the agenda, when it was on the back burner for 13 or 14 years. The local authority never tackled the problem of underachievement, and I would definitely not support a system that ensured that the youngsters in Carlisle underachieved. We have some very good schools and sixth forms, but some of them underachieve and it would probably be wrong to name them. No one will be taking A-levels at one sixth form this year, and fewer than 10 pupils will do so at another school. The youngsters who have not stayed on may perhaps go into further education or whatever.

We have a problem, and it needs to be addressed. I have spoken to all the heads teachers and the chairmen of governors of the schools in my constituency. With the exception of one school, which is in favour of the proposals, the rest are against them. I have also talked to the FE college, Carlisle college, which supports the proposals. The head teachers and the chairmen of governors of the other schools, however, do not say that the situation is good. They all accept that there has to be change, but I suspect that that change will depend on the attitude of the head teachers. When the proposals first came out, they were totally opposed to them; they were anti everything. They have now decided to go away and discuss among themselves an alternative to the nuclear option, and I look forward to that alternative being discussed with the LSC and to the LSC coming up with an alternative to its initial proposal.

Reference has been made to Caldew school, which is in my constituency. I have visited the school and talked to the head teacher and the chairmen of governors, and one of the things that came out—the right hon. Gentleman did not refer to it in his speech—is that between 25 and 30 per cent. of the children who go to that school come from the urban area of Carlisle. Although probably 70 per cent. of the school's pupils come from rural areas, it has a large intake from the urban area. The school welcomes that because it would otherwise struggle with its numbers, and its proportion of children from urban areas will probably increase as the years go on.

A considerable amount may come from the LSC to improve sixth-form education in the city—the right hon. Gentleman cited a figure of £12 million. I would not like all that money to go away, because I do not accept that our schools have lots of new buildings—some of them are quite old and in need of refurbishment. We need the LSC to be flexible and to provide some of that money—perhaps for a central location or elsewhere—to improve the standards and quality of the buildings in which youngsters are taught.

I went to the city of Durham to see an alternative proposal to that which has been put forward in my area. Durham has schools for children aged between 11 and 16. Although Lochinvar school in Longtown is such a school, most of our schools are 11 to 18 schools. Durham has a sixth-form centre that is based at a local school but the centre is twice the size of that school. One might initially think that the solution was a political fudge because the council could not agree on which schools to close and open, but the system actually works. I hope that people will consider such an option.

I shall not take much more time from the Minister because we talked for an hour yesterday. We need to know that the proposal is for consultation—that no final decision has been taken—and that there could be flexibility with the money. We also need to be told what Cumbria county council is doing. The council is a shambles at the moment because its chief executive has left and it is weak. It has not uttered one word about sixth-form provision. Although the right hon. Gentleman was critical of the LSC, I want to know what the county council thinks of the proposals and what its alternative proposals would be. We know everybody else's proposals on a subject that is so important that the right hon. Gentleman secured an Adjournment debate on it, but all that we have heard from the county council is silence. I hope that the LSC and the county council will work together with the heads of the various schools to come up with an option that would improve opportunities for youngsters in my constituency and leave in place what is good in the area. We need to reach a point at which there is consensus on a proposal so that the Minister would see that there was little opposition to it and thus be able to rubber stamp it saying, "That's great, we've got a deal done and people are happy."

I am conscious that the project is one of the first throughout the country although there are about 50 local learning and skills councils that are going through the exercise. It would be wrong if our LSC were seen to be totally defeated because it has pinpointed and highlighted a problem. Although I do not agree with its solution to the problem, I thank it for bringing the matter forward. I agree with some arguments made on the consultation because it has been poor in some cases. However, I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman and I both want better education for all youngsters whom we represent, whether they live in urban or rural areas.

5.8 pm

The Minister for Lifelong Learning, Further and Higher Education (Alan Johnson)

I congratulate the right hon. Member for Penrith and The Border (David Maclean) on securing the debate and thank him for his courtesy in advising me of the nature of his speech. I am aware of the cross-party nature of the concern because my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle (Mr. Martlew) came to see me about it yesterday, as he said. However, I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for raising the matter in an Adjournment debate because it gives me a chance to discuss the Government's policy on 16-to-19 reorganisation and to address several concerns raised by him and my hon. Friend.

It is important to say from the outset that the Government have no agenda to promote a particular type of provision for 16 to 19-year-olds. Sixth-form provision that adequately meets the needs of pupils, whether in schools, sixth-form colleges or sixth-form centres at further education colleges, is our objective and it will be paramount in our consideration of the results of the process. In many areas, 16-to-19 school, college and work-based training provision is excellent, but there is significant variation. My hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle explained that there are problems in Carlisle, which hon. Members would no doubt want addressed. Inspection reports show that there are serious weaknesses in some areas of the nation and a lack of co-ordination of provision in other areas. That is why the Learning and Skills Council is in consultation with local education authorities.

Although I cannot respond to my hon. Friend's specific point on Cumbria county council, we expect the LEA to be fully engaged in the process, as we expect students, schools, colleges and employers to be involved in a process—the strategic area reviews of post-16 arrangements—that will be undertaken in all 47 learning and skills council areas over the next two years. They are called strategic area reviews of post-16 arrangements. Carlisle is in many ways at the forefront of the process because it began a little earlier. It is right that it addresses the problem, but hon. Members should be aware that the understandable concerns expressed by the right hon. Member for Penrith and The Border need to be tackled because every one of us faces the prospect of such a review in our area over the next couple of years.

So a review process is taking place. To assist that process, I set out in a departmental publication in September last year five key principles that should underpin the organisation of 16-to-19 provision. They cover the importance of high-quality provision; distinct 16-to-19 provision—the word is "distinct" not "discrete"; the diversity to ensure curriculum breadth; learner choice, an important consideration raised by the right hon. Gentleman; and value for money. Alongside statutory considerations, they will provide the benchmark against which we assess reorganisation proposals that come to the Department. I assure my hon. Friend and the right hon. Gentleman that no proposals have come to the Department yet, but a consultation process is under way. We have set out the five basic principles because everyone in a local area should be aware of the provisions under which we will judge proposals that are eventually submitted to us.

Let me say a few words about each principle. First, underpinning all consideration of 16-to-19 provision should be the requirement that all provision for all learners is high quality, whatever their chosen pathway, whether it is vocational, academic or some other form. Key things to be examined include the quality of local leadership, the need for investment and the need for reconfiguration of provision, collaboration, merger or the establishment of new institutions.

The second is distinct 16-to-19 provision to meet the particular pastoral, management and learning needs of people in that age group, wherever they learn. All young people should be attached to a 16-to-19 base, including those in work-based training when attending college. That base will have separate management arrangements with clear responsibilities for ensuring that the learning experience for all 16 to 19-year-olds is appropriate and coherent. Each young person should be assigned a tutor.

The third principle is diversity, to ensure curriculum breadth. Although that is the third principle set out, it is no less important than the others—they are not ranked in priority order. Together, providers should support a wide curriculum offer for all 16-to-19 learners in their area. Well managed collaboration can enable popular and successful small providers, including school sixth forms, to remain viable and to share and build on their particular areas of expertise. Key features include the sharing of individual provider specialties and allowing and encouraging 16 to 19-year-old learners to select courses offered by a range of providers.

That brings me to the fourth, related principle, which is that the pattern of 16-to-19 provision should respect learner choice—an important feature of the right hon. Gentleman's speech. Where possible, students should have a choice of provider within reasonable travelling distance. Young people should have comprehensive, objective advice and guidance on the range of providers and options in their area, to inform their choices at age 16.

Finally, the House will not be surprised to hear that reorganisation of 16-to-19 provision has to be affordable and cost effective. Any net costs should be commensurate with the expected improvement in learning opportunities.

In accordance with the Learning and Skills Act 2000, the LSC has new powers that enable it to fulfil its planning responsibilities for post-16 provision. We expect the LSC to consult local stakeholders, including schools, the LEA, parents, students and employers, to ensure that local provision meets the needs of learners. Any reorganisation must have the learner at its heart.

In Cumbria, the local LSC is currently consulting on its reorganisation proposals for the Carlisle area. Those proposals are at an early stage of the statutory process, and depending on the outcome of the consultation, a formal proposal may be submitted by the LSC for the Secretary of State's consideration. I am pleased that Cumbria LSC has allowed three months for consultation—a month longer than the statutory requirement—which is all well and good. I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman will accept that it would be wrong of me to prejudice the consultation or any potential future decision by the Secretary of State by offering a view at this stage on the situation in Carlisle.

The LSC proposals are for new sixth-form provision in Carlisle. My understanding is that the LSC proposes closing either five or seven school sixth forms, or perhaps a variant of that, as local FE provision is developed.

David Maclean

I understand that the proposal may come to the Secretary of State for determination and that the Minister would be involved in the decision, which precludes his writing to me on the questions I posed, because doing so could prejudice his quasi-judicial position. If the Minister cannot answer the 13 questions I asked because of his position, will he use his powers to insist that the LSC, either the national body or its Cumbria office, does so?

Alan Johnson

Yes. The right hon. Gentleman, articulating as he has questions that have been asked by parents, teachers and others in the area, should receive a response, and I shall ensure that that response comes from the appropriate body, which in respect of all his questions is, I believe, the LSC. However, if there are any questions to which my Department can respond while not prejudicing our role, we shall respond. I shall ensure that an answer is given on the specific points he raised.

The LSC proposes closing either five or seven sixth forms, or possibly a variant of that. One of the options includes the William Howard and Caldew schools. All seven schools were covered by the area review undertaken in 2002 and updated in 2003. I understand that Cumbria LSC wanted all seven schools in the Carlisle area to have the opportunity to be included in the consultation. In that way, the pupils, staff, governors, parents and members of the local community served by those schools have been able to express their views about the future of all seven schools and take a full part in the consultation process. That is the situation that should prevail as part of the consultation.

I am pleased to see that the publication of the preliminary notice outlining options for change in Carlisle has generated so much local interest. As my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle said, we met yesterday to discuss the matter. I hope that local people continue to share their views with the local LSC so that their concerns inform the development of any proposals for the reorganisation of provision for 16 to 19-year-olds in Carlisle. The proposals by the local LSC are designed to do better for the young people of Carlisle. I hope that if those consulted do not agree with the proposals, they will make it clear how they would improve participation and attainment in Carlisle and solve some of the problems that my hon. Friend told me about yesterday.

It is important to stress again that nothing has been decided yet. It is important to remember that the statutory process is at a very early stage. The current consultation may throw up new ideas for improving 16-to-19 education in Carlisle which will take LSC strategic planning in a new direction. I understand that the local LSC is listening closely to all the views being expressed, and it will no doubt take into account the Hansard report of this important debate.

If, after the current consultation—my hon. Friend asked me to set out the process—the LSC decides to go ahead with the proposal that has caused the controversy mentioned this evening, it will have to publish formal proposals and there will be a further opportunity for objections and comments on those proposals. The proposals will then be considered by the Secretary of State. He will require evidence that the LSC has considered carefully the full range of options and the impact of any reorganisation proposals on local provision. Any changes must be in the best interests of present and future learners, and must follow the correct statutory process.

Mr. Martlew

When the proposals come to the Secretary of State, is it his duty just to accept them or reject them, or can he amend them at that stage?

Alan Johnson

The Secretary of State will take a view on the proposals. If they are rejected, it is up to the LSC to begin a process of finding another way forward. It is not a matter for the Secretary of State, from the great distance of Sanctuary house in Westminster, to make decisions on behalf of Carlisle and Cumbria. His job would be to judge the quality of the proposals.

I can assure the House that the views of all those who have expressed objections and comments will be taken into account, should a formal proposal be submitted by the LSC. Indeed, it is the major information that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will look for in connection with any formal proposal that is made.

Let me say a word about Connexions, which is the Government's front-line support service for all young people in England aged 13 to 19. Connexions provides integrated advice, guidance and access to personal development opportunities to help remove barriers to learning and progression, and to help young people make a smooth transition to adulthood and working life. It is a new organization, and I wanted to rehearse its role. The important point about Connexions for the purposes of this debate is that we are pleased that Cumbria Connexions is undertaking a survey of young people in Carlisle in January to find out their views about the proposals. The survey will sample a representative cross-section of students in the Carlisle area. I am pleased to see that young people are being encouraged to participate in the consultation and will have the opportunity to have their say.

I repeat that this Government recognise and value the contribution that good school sixth-form provision can make to young people's opportunities. The Government are committed to encouraging popular and successful schools to expand so that more parents can send their children to them if they wish to do so. I can assure the House that neither the Government nor the LSC have an anti-sixth forms agenda. In the context of proposals made by the LSC to reorganise sixth-form provision, should they come to the Secretary of State for decision, the impact on standards and learner choice would be the key factor that he would consider. That would include whether the plans would affect the level of provision in the best local schools, but he would want to balance that against the potential beneficial impact on overall standards in the area.

There can be no blueprint for the organisation of 16-to-19 provision, since the focus is the learner, not the institution, and local circumstances and quality of provision will vary, for all the reasons that the right hon. Gentleman set out. Schools and colleges must offer high-quality provision that meets the needs of all young people in their communities and employers both now and in future.

In conclusion, I thank the right hon. Gentleman for raising this important issue. I hope that he is reassured, or can eventually be reassured, that 16-to-19 reorganisation proposals for Carlisle have the learner and the needs of the whole community at their heart. As with other areas, any proposals being considered for Carlisle will need to be underpinned by the five key principles that I mentioned—the importance of high quality, distinct 16-to-19 provision, diversity to ensure curriculum breadth, learner choice and value for money. I also hope that he and my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle are reassured that the consultation process provides the opportunity for them and their constituents to be fully involved in ensuring that those principles are met in the current very important reviews.

Question put and agreed to.

Adjourned accordingly at twenty-six minutes past Five o'clock.