Waiting Times (Hansard, 5 November 2003)

§ 2. Mr. Peter Luff (Mid-Worcestershire)
What assessment he has made of the current waiting times for NHS surgical procedures in border areas. [135529]

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Wales (Mr. Don Touhig)
The waiting times figures as at the end of September 2003 were published last week. Across Wales, the target that no patient should wait more than 12 months for cardiac surgery has been consistently met, and the targeted procedure of orthopaedics also shows significant improvement on the long waiting lists.

§ Mr. Luff
On the subject of The Western Mail—a very popular newspaper on this side of the House—has the hon. Gentleman seen the report in yesterday's edition of the attack by the hon. Member for Clwyd, West (Gareth Thomas) on the National Assembly, in which he accuses Ministers of putting "political correctness" ahead of patient care? Will it not be in the border areas of England and Wales that people will see the contrast between the English health service making scarcely any progress—despite massive sums of money being thrown at it—and the health service in Wales, which is actually going backwards rather than forwards? People will then realise what a cruel deception it is for Ministers to claim that they are running a national health service.

§ Mr. Touhig
Nearly 200,000 more patients were treated in Wales than were treated in the year before the last general election. The NHS has treated 643,000 inpatients and 2.8 million out-patients. Waiting times are coming down. The key engines to drive forward improvement in the health service in Wales are investment and reform. This Government are putting in the investment, and the Conservatives are opposing it; we are tackling the reform while they oppose it. At the end of the day, the people of Wales will make the right judgment. The health service in Wales is safe in Labour's hands.

§ Mr. Jon Owen Jones (Cardiff, Central)
Does it not worry the Minister that although there has been considerable investment on both sides of the border, there is not the same enthusiasm for reform on both sides? Given the present rate of progress, within a year waiting times on the English side will be three times shorter than those on the Welsh side. Does the Minister consider that acceptable?

§ Mr. Touhig
It is important to recognise, as my hon. Friend does, that the way to improve the health service in Wales is through investment and reforms. Our Assembly colleagues may be following a different path from us at Westminster in some instances, but that is perfectly valid. What is important is for the people of Wales to get a better deal from the NHS, and I believe they recognise that my Assembly colleagues' efforts are benefiting them in that regard. Working in partnership, the Government and the Assembly are delivering a first-class health service in Wales.

§ Mr. Elfyn Llwyd (Meirionnydd Nant Conwy)
The Minister will know of a new phenomenon in Wales—the list of people waiting to get on to NHS dentists' patient registers. May I suggest that the next time he talks to his Assembly colleagues, they discuss the possibility of introducing training grants that would enable dentists to engage trainees? Large swathes of Wales contain no NHS dentists, and many members of the profession have told me that training grants might be the solution.

§ Mr. Touhig
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. My Assembly colleagues have, in fact, introduced a series of measures to attract dentists to Wales and expand NHS dentistry throughout the country. There is a basic £40,000 grant, as well as a £20,000 grant for the establishment of new vocational training practices, and there are also incentives to encourage dental graduates to engage in vocational training. I recognise that there is a problem throughout Wales, but I believe that our Assembly colleagues are working to solve it.

§ Julie Morgan (Cardiff, North)
Is my hon. Friend aware that the waiting time for heart surgery at Heath hospital in my constituency fell to less than eight months in September, with only six people waiting longer than six months? Will he join me in congratulating the staff on their hard work, which has produced such a big improvement?

§ Mr. Touhig
Certainly. The Assembly has targeted a number of key areas in Wales that need improvement, one of which is cardiac surgery. Before the launch of the cardiac initiative in July 2001, 100 patients were remaining on waiting lists for more than 12 months; now no patients are waiting as long. That is testimony to the investment in the Welsh health service, and to the way in which it is responding to the priorities and requirements of Government and the Assembly

§ Lembit Öpik (Montgomeryshire)
Is the Minister aware of the concern felt in the border areas, where we have not seen the impact of the investment that the Government claim to have made in the health service? Will he explain to our constituents why they must wait 15 months for hip operations simply because they are on the wrong side of the border? What plans has he to remove the differential in waiting times between England and, say, Powys?

§ Mr. Touhig
I think that there are differences within Wales. Orthopaedics has been a key area of concern to my Assembly colleagues and, I know, to my right hon. and hon. Friends. I have discussed the problem with the Assembly Minister. 1As I said earlier, however, what is important is our investment and reform. As a result of that, there are now 30 per cent. more whole-time equivalent hospital consultants in Wales than there were in 1997, there are 5 per cent. more qualified nurses this year than last year, and there has been a 6 per cent. increase in the number of GPs over the last decade.
If we are to improve the quality and delivery of the health service, we must have people in place. Only by investing and reforming will we achieve that—and I am afraid the Liberal Democrats do not have much of a policy in that regard.

§ Alan Howarth (Newport, East)
Has my hon. Friend noted that Gwent Healthcare NHS trust achieved significant reductions in waiting times this year for cataract, cardiac and orthopaedic surgery, thanks to tighter management and improved funding for clinical initiatives? Did he also note this morning's welcome announcement by the Assembly Health Minister of an extra £10.72 million in capital funding for additional orthopaedic capacity in south-east Wales?

§ Mr. Touhig
I have noted both, and I welcome this morning's announcement. Like my right hon. Friend, I am a Gwent MP, and I know that there has been a problem in relation to orthopaedics in south-east Wales, but the Assembly is putting its money where its mouth is and introducing reforms, and I think that after a reasonable period we shall see a reduction in waiting times. We shall all welcome that.

§ Mr. Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley)
The Minister says that the National Assembly is following a different path, and it is, but it is a downward and slippery path. The number of people waiting for out-patient appointments in 1997 was 101,000. Today the figure is 224,000, with severe friction points on the border areas. Has the hon. Gentleman discussed with the Minister for Health and Social Services in Wales how well advanced Welsh 783 hospitals are in getting to grips with the impact of the European working time directive as compared with hospitals across the border?

§ Mr. Touhig
I was not sure whether that was the hon. Gentleman's bid to keep his job in the shadow Cabinet, or his swansong. Time will tell. At least he has one thing in common with his new leader: they are both Welsh Tories who could not get elected in Wales.
The investment and reform that we are putting into the health service in Wales are making a considerable impact. The routes that we are following to reform and change the health service in Wales are different from those in the rest of the United Kingdom. It is perfectly valid to do that. I believe that our colleagues in the Assembly are making an important impact, improving the quality of the health service in Wales.
Comparisons are bound to be made with the position in England. Such comparisons are perfectly valid and should be used as a way of jacking up and improving the quality of delivery in the health service on both sides of the border. The collaborative approach that we have with the Assembly is the right way to proceed. The hon. Gentleman may care to tell some of his colleagues in the other House, who are blocking essential reforms to the health service in England and Wales and challenging the devolution settlement, that they should come on board and start doing something to improve the health service in Wales, instead of whingeing about it.

§ Mr. Evans
It is not my job I fear for but the jobs of those who work in the national health service in Wales. As the Minister knows, even though the European working time directive has not yet come in, six ambulances were forced to queue outside University hospital in Cardiff because it was full. One patient had chest pains, another had head injuries. Paramedics stated that it was the worst situation they had ever experienced. Is he proud that one of Wales's greatest exports is of patients across the border into England?

§ Mr. Touhig
Those are crocodile tears for the health service. The hon. Gentleman's future leader recently called the health service a Stalinist creation. The important thing to remember is that, when the Conservative party was in government, it closed 70 hospitals.

§ Mr. Speaker
Order. The Minister must give a reply and tell us about his stewardship, not about the Conservative party when it was in power.

§ Mr. Touhig
I perfectly accept the point you make, Mr. Speaker. I was trying to clarify the comparison: 70 hospitals were closed, whereas 10 new hospitals are planned under a Labour-led National Assembly. The problems with the health service in Wales will not be resolved by a 20 per cent. cut in public funding, which the Conservative party is committed to. We are making a difference to the health service in Wales, but the Conservatives have no answers to the problems that it faces.

§ Mr. Evans
It is not crocodile tears from me. Is it crocodile tears from the Minister's colleagues, the hon. Members for Clwyd, West (Gareth Thomas) and for 784 Cardiff, Central (Mr. Jones), who both have concerns about the state of the NHS in Wales? Will the Minister now apologise to the people of Wales for bringing the health service towards breaking point? Will he apologise to the people left stranded yesterday outside that hospital and those stranded on growing waiting lists? Will he apologise to the staff of the national health service, who have to put up with those conditions, and apologise to 92-year-old Evelyn Williams who, suffering from pneumonia and Alzheimer's, waited more than 30 hours on a trolley for a bed at University hospital last week? We used to have a national health service; now we have a national scandal. It is time the Government got a grip.

§ Mr. Touhig
I am only sorry that the right hon. and learned Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Mr. Howard), the new leader of the Tory party, is not here—the hon. Member for Ribble Valley (Mr. Evans) is certain to keep his job after that performance. The fact is that the Labour Government and the Labour Assembly are investing in the health service in Wales—80 per cent. more investment than when his party was in government. The recent budget announced by the Assembly shows an 8.9 per cent. increase in health and social care spending for next year.
Of course, there are problems with the health service. It is a vast service. Anyone who uses it—I think that the hon. Gentleman has recently, as I have recently—has nothing but praise for those who work in it. No one believes that the health service is perfect in every way it delivers. What is important to those working in the health service and those who depend on it is that it remains free at the point of need. They know that they have a Government who believe in it, will invest in it and will improve it.