HC Deb 04 July 2003 vol 408 cc637-8 9.33 am
Mr. Eric Forth (Bromley and Chislehurst)

On a point of order, Madam Deputy Speaker. You will be aware that, yesterday, Mr. Speaker gave a ruling or guidance to the House about referring to the inappropriateness of the appointment of the Minister for Children. I seek your guidance and interpretation of that ruling. Mr. Speaker said: The House should know that when an hon. Member is being attacked in such a way there should be a substantive motion before the House. He was talking about what he said was a regular and concerted attack on the Minister for Children. Some of us thought that the Opposition were here to make regular and concerted attacks on Ministers, but that may now be a rather old-fashioned view—I do not know.

I seek your guidance, Madam Deputy Speaker, about the fact that Mr. Speaker said in the context of attacking Ministers that there should be a substantive motion before the House. It would help us if we could have your guidance on what form that substantive motion might take and how it would enable Opposition Members or, indeed, Government Back Benchers more effectively to hold a Minister to account.

I am sure that this is not what Mr. Speaker meant, but the worrying implication of that ruling is that it suggests a degree of protection for Ministers by the occupant of the Chair. I am sure that you, Madam Deputy Speaker, will want to assure us that that cannot be so, but it would be very helpful if you could guide me and the House on what form the substantive motion should take. I hope that you will not say that it should be something like an early-day motion because, as you know, that leads absolutely nowhere.

I hope that you will be able to tell us what we can do procedurally to table a substantive motion that will allow us properly to hold a Minister to account—whether or not it represents, in Mr. Speaker's words, a concerted attack on the Minister"—[Official Report, 3 July 2003; Vol. 408, c. 542.] I hope to concert many attacks on Ministers in my remaining time as a Member, but, on this occasion, your guidance would be very helpful.

Madam Deputy Speaker

I do not think that it is for me to interpret what Mr. Speaker himself said yesterday, but I suggest that the right hon. Gentleman should perhaps seek the advice of the Clerks in the Table Office.