HC Deb 15 January 2003 vol 397 cc717-8

'The Assembly may by regulations made by statutory instrument make in relation to local authorities in Wales any provision which may be made by the Secretary of State under section 12 in relation to local authorities in England.'—[Jacqui Smith.]

Brought up, and read the First time.

2.33 pm
The Minister of State, Department of Health (Jacqui Smith)

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

Madam Deputy Speaker (Sylvia Heal)

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Government amendment No. 38.

Mrs. Patsy Calton (Cheadle)

I understand that the new clause would tighten up section 12(7), but would be grateful for confirmation from the Minister.

Will the new clause give the Welsh Assembly powers simply to emulate the statutory instruments from the Secretary of State under section 12, or will it have any powers itself to produce fresh statutory instruments, within the confines of the section?

Jacqui Smith

It depends how "tighten up" is defined, but the aim of the new clause is probably not to tighten up the position relating to Wales. The Government seek to balance the commitment to devolution of health matters to the Assembly with maintaining the original purpose of the new power, which was to make community equipment and intermediate services only free of charge. The new power in part 2 has been taken with specific services in mind, and with a clear purpose—to help reduce delayed discharge caused by services in which integration is hampered by charging.

The new clause, and the regulation-making power that it gives the Assembly, will allow the Assembly to decide how to use the new power in Wales. The present wording would require Wales to replicate the regulations set by the Government in England. The new clause gives the Assembly more flexibility.

Mr. Jon Owen Jones (Cardiff, Central)

I have just received an answer from the Department of Health concerning the number of Welsh patients treated in English hospitals. More than 4,000 are treated just in the five hospitals most commonly used along the border—the Countess of Chester hospital, the Royal Shrewsbury hospital, the Hereford hospital, the Robert Jones and Agnes Hunt orthopaedic hospital, the Royal Liverpool University children's hospital, the Cardiothoracic centre in Liverpool, the Central Manchester hospital, the Walton Centre for Neurology and Neurosurgery, the Royal Liverpool and Broadgreen University hospitals and the United Bristol healthcare trust.

What reciprocal arrangements will be made in regard to charging for any patients from Welsh local authorities whose discharge from English hospitals may be delayed?

Jacqui Smith

I understand that the Assembly has decided not to introduce in Wales the incentives that we are introducing in the Bill. As for reciprocal arrangements, I understand that the discharge of fewer than three Welsh patients in English hospitals is being delayed. Because Wales has decided that it does not want to introduce reimbursement at this time, we currently have no plans for reciprocal arrangements. If Wales decides to implement reimbursement proposals, we shall need to consider the details then.

Question put and agreed to.

Clause read a Second time, and added to the Bill.

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