HC Deb 15 May 2002 vol 385 cc757-9
1. Mr. David Rendel (Newbury)

What assessment she has made of the effectiveness of her poverty reduction strategy in reducing poverty. [54737]

The Secretary of State for International Development

The Government's strategy for reducing global poverty is set out in the 1997 and 2000 White Papers on international development. Our commitment is to mobilise the international system to meet the international development targets and to work to make globalisation work for the poor by making international governance more equitable. These are massive challenges but progress is being made.

Mr. Rendel

The Secretary of State will know that education plays a very important part in the reduction of poverty. What discussions has she had with the International Monetary Fund with a view to including within public spending targets the freeing up of any charges for primary education, so that we can have universal primary education by 2015?

Clare Short

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. In the countries where we have driven forward and supported local efforts to get progress towards universal primary education—Uganda, Malawi, Tanzania and Rwanda, for example, have made significant progress in recent years—dropping all charges is absolutely key. In very poor countries, when there are charges, poor children are excluded from school. At the recent spring meetings of the World Bank and the IMF, there was an agreement for 10 major countries to work together in the international system to fast-track progress. Our recommendations also included no charging, so we are moving forward.

Mr. Michael Clapham (Barnsley, West and Penistone)

Is my right hon. Friend aware that, recently, the interim chemical review committee of the United Nations Environment Programme recommended that there should be strict international controls on asbestos because of the risk associated with that material? Will she therefore, at the Monterrey conference on financing development, and at the world summit in Johannesburg on sustainable development, press for a ban on the use of asbestos in projects in the developing world as part of a strategy to tackle poverty? The use of asbestos causes ill health, deprivation and poverty.

Clare Short

I confess that I was not aware of that ruling by the United Nations body to which my hon. Friend refers. The Monterrey conference has taken place, but I take very seriously what he said. I went to Sverdlovsk in Russia, where asbestos is still being mined and its extraction and export is still being promoted. I tried to tell its mayor that that is not approved of in our country, and he had never heard of the argument that asbestos is damaging to health. Clearly, therefore, a great deal remains to be done to strengthen international controls. I shall look into the proposals that my hon. Friend has made to see what can be done.

Mr. Andrew Robathan (Blaby)

Would the Secretary of State agree that those who suffer most in a corrupt society are the poor, and that her poverty reduction strategies are torpedoed by the poor governance, ineffectiveness and corruption of Governments in the developing world? Will she underline to the House her determination, which I know is strong, to ensure that developing countries' Governments take responsibility for their actions, and that they do not always blame donor countries for their poor actions?

Clare Short

The hon. Gentleman is right that corruption corrodes economic growth, means that resources are misused, and leads to debt problems. The poor pay the price in terms of poverty, suffering and lack of public facilities. Corruption is a two-way street: companies from countries like ours have corrupted, bribed and helped to bring about some of the imploded and corrupt state institutions that exist in some countries. The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development convention now makes it a crime to offer a bribe to a public official abroad, and bribes are ceasing to be tax deductible in those OECD countries where, to our disgrace, that used to be the case. Under the poverty reduction strategy, we are giving financial support to Governments to help them with development if they tighten up procurement and management of the public finances. We are therefore putting much more focus on that, and we are getting progress. I agree that that is crucial.

Mr. Barry Gardiner (Brent, North)

I welcome the way in which the Secretary of State has focused the Department's attention on poverty reduction, and particularly the role that country strategy papers have played in that. With particular reference to the Cameroon country strategy paper, which has focused on forestry as a key way of bringing people out of poverty in that country, will she comment on the importance of assessing natural resources such as the forest, and the bush meat that it contains, when considering how best to bring some of the poorest communities in west and central Africa out of poverty?

Clare Short

My hon. Friend is right. Forests are crucial to Cameroon. The country has a long history of terrible corruption, but we have been working on the issue of forestry for some time. Some types of tree are unique to Cameroon and they are of value to the whole international community. We have made progress recently. We have learned from what has happened in Nepal, Cameroon, Indonesia and other places where we support forestry that the way in which to protect the future of the forest is to empower the people who live in the forest and on its resources. In most parts of the world, criminal and corrupt groups misuse the forests. However, when one changes ownership and control of the trees and the animals, people live better and conserve the future of the forest. That is what we are trying to achieve in Cameroon.

John Barrett (Edinburgh, West)

Will the Secretary of State outline what can be done in post-conflict countries? Some of the poorest people live in countries where it is most difficult to get aid through to the most needy.

Clare Short

Yes, indeed—although it has to be said that people living under conditions of conflict are even more oppressed and in trouble. We have to do better at resolving conflict. Some 20 per cent. of the population of Africa live under conditions of conflict. Often that conflict is not a war in the classic sense, but reflects the problems found in weak states with rebels and semi-criminal groups. We have to bring such conflicts to an end and start building the institutions of a state so that the economy can be properly managed and that people have a better future. We are doing that in Sierra Leone, where elections took place right across the territory and the conflict is over. However, there is much more to do in Sierra Leone.

I agree with the hon. Gentleman. If we work only in countries where there is an orderly Government to carry out development, the wretched of the earth will not be helped. We must be better at ending conflict and helping build decent institutions in post-conflict failed states, so that the poor of the world have a better chance in life.