HC Deb 27 June 2002 vol 387 cc953-4
11. Barbara Follett (Stevenage)

What help her Department is giving county councils with the task of the disposal of used refrigerators. [63012]

The Minister for the Environment (Mr. Michael Meacher)

In December 2001, we announced a payment of £6 million to go to local authorities to cover their costs up until March 2002 for the disposal of refrigerators. We realise that local authorities are in need of further funding, and intend to make an announcement as soon as possible.

Barbara Follett

With Hertfordshire county council currently disposing of 3,000 fridges a month—and, despite its best efforts, it cannot do that for less than £32 a fridge—and with Government assistance unlikely to amount to more than £15 a fridge, will my right hon. Friend please look carefully at ways of helping councils meet this shortfall?

Mr. Meacher

Two mobile plants have been operating in this country for two or three months and three fixed plants will be in operation by the end of next month, which will be able to reprocess 1.2 million fridges. Given the state of the current technology and the level of plant that has been installed, my understanding is that a competitive cost for reprocessing is about £20per unit but that as the technology improves and further plant is put in place, that may reduce to about £15 per unit. However, I am happy to look at any evidence that my hon. Friend can produce that suggests a basis for significantly different figures.

Mr. Keith Simpson (Mid-Norfolk)

I am sure that the whole House will welcome the Minister's comments on recompense for county councils, but is he really satisfied that they will have any confidence in the Government following the report of the Select Committee on the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, which estimated that the cost for this year alone would be more than £40 million? Some people reckon that the cost will probably be in excess of £100 million. The Minister has probably lost confidence in his own civil servants whom he blamed over the EU directive. If he blames his civil servants, will any of them resign or does he intend to sack them?

Mr. Meacher

Uncharacteristically, the hon. Gentleman is wrong in almost everything that he said. First, the cost has been estimated at about £40 million this year. The Government will be making a statement on that. I certainly do not accept the suggested figure, which is nowhere near £100 million.

Secondly, I did not blame my civil servants; they did exactly what they should have done, which was constantly to raise at formal meetings—nine times over two and a quarter years—the need for an answer to the question as to whether CFC should be removed from insulation foam. They were right to do that. The only comment that I made was that I should have been informed about the matter at the time—[HON. MEMBERS: "Ah."] I was informed in July 2001. I should have been informed much earlier and had that been so, I should have approached the Environment Commissioner, Margot Wallstrom, at a much earlier stage.

I have not lost confidence in my civil servants, nor have I lost confidence in their ability to get on top of the problem. Indeed, by the autumn—probably October—we shall be beginning to reprocess more than the increase in the pile of refrigerators. The pile will disappear some time in the middle or latter part of next year.