HC Deb 22 November 2001 vol 375 cc448-51
5. Tony Wright (Cannock Chase)

What recent representations she has received on the issue of religious schools. [14635]

The Secretary of State for Education and Skills (Estelle Morris)

I have received a number of representations on faith schools from organisations and the general public since the publication of the White Paper.

Tony Wright

I am grateful for my right hon. Friend's answer. May I suggest that the last thing our society needs at the moment is more schools segregated by religion? Before 11 September, it looked like a bad idea; it now looks like a mad idea. We have had some splendid policy rethinks recently; will my right hon. Friend give us another one today?

Estelle Morris

My hon. Friend is concerned about divisions in society and different groups living and working in different areas; I share his concern. However, the problem is not caused by parents having the right to educate their children in a faith-based school. My hon. Friend should not land the whole issue of segregated communities on faith schools, as they do not cause it. However, there is an issue about bringing up our children to be tolerant and understanding and to appreciate people from different faiths and cultures. That is why I know that my hon. Friend will have welcomed the inclusion of citizenship in the national curriculum from September. There is a great deal to do but, for centuries, people in this country have been tolerant of parents' wish to have a faith-based education. That has been granted to Christians and Jews; I do not want to be a Secretary of State who denies it to minority faiths.

Mr. Phil Willis (Harrogate and Knaresborough)

Does the Secretary of State accept that no Church school in receipt of state funds should be able to discriminate in its admissions policy against children of other faiths and those with no faith at all? Given her comments on inclusiveness and comments by the Bishop of Blackburn and, indeed, Muslim associations, will she give the House a guarantee that faith schools and new faith schools will have inclusive policies and that, if necessary, she will introduce legislation to ensure that there is no discrimination on the basis of faith?

Estelle Morris

No, I will not go that far, but perhaps I can reassure the hon. Gentleman. In the case of over-subscription, it is reasonable for a faith-based school to say that it wants to give preference to those who share its faith. However, as I said to the Church of England—I pay tribute to Ron Dearing and the Church of England for their entirely inclusive attitude to Church of England faith-based schools—there is an obligation and a challenge, which are not being completely met at present, to make sure that children in faith-based schools have opportunities to meet, mix and work with people from other faith-based schools and schools of no faith at all. That change should take place. Under the new rules, new faith schools must show that they are inclusive; they could do so through admissions arrangements, which I welcome, but, if not, they must show school organisation committees ways in which they will be inclusive.

Mrs. Lorna Fitzsimons (Rochdale)

Many of us on the Labour Benches and beyond wish that the horse had not bolted 150 years ago, and that we had secular education, as is the case in America. However, the horse has bolted. In the communities that I represent, more than 27 per cent. practise the Muslim faith, and that number is growing. Does my right hon. Friend accept that greater damage is done by the hypocrisy that those people see reinforced when members of faiths whose numbers are diminishing have a protected right to faith-based schools, which they are denied? Does my right hon. Friend accept that that is far more dangerous for our communities than allowing people to educate their children in a regulated faith-based school of their choice?

Estelle Morris

I agree with my hon. Friend. I do not know what message it gives about a multicultural society if people who are not Christians or Jews are told that they are the only group who cannot have faith-based schools.

I take a further point that my hon. Friend makes. My hon. Friend the Member for Cannock Chase (Tony Wright) mentioned 11 September; others have mentioned Bradford and the riots during the summer. We must remember that before last year there was not one faith-based Muslim school in Bradford, but there were 18 in the private sector. Between 1997 and 2001, the new minority faith-based schools were independent schools that came into the maintained sector—all 13 of them. Let me be clear: I would sooner have them in the maintained sector, where they are inspected properly and teach the national curriculum and we can make sure that standards are kept high. I entirely support my hon. Friend the Member for Rochdale (Mrs. Fitzsimons).

Mr. Paul Goodman (Wycombe)

Does the Secretary of State have any plans that could reduce the percentage of Catholic pupils at Catholic schools?

Estelle Morris

No.

Mrs. Ann Cryer (Keighley)

I thank my right hon. Friend for her comments. In one of my Church of England schools, 90 per cent. of the pupils are Muslim. That demonstrates that faith schools can work. Does my right hon. Friend agree that in some areas where we extend the number of religious schools, it could lead to further self-segregation, which would fly in the face of what some of us are trying to achieve—greater integration?

Estelle Morris

I entirely respect my hon. Friend's comments. I know her constituency and I know of her extensive work with the Muslim community. She makes, an interesting point. In Birmingham, as in her constituency, there are maintained schools which are 100 per cent. Muslim. Children in faith-based schools are not always predominantly from one culture or another. Whether or not there are more faith-based schools will not depend on me or on Government; such decisions will be taken locally. It is not our wish to encourage them proactively. There must be a level playing field. Until 1997, every time a religious group other than a Jewish or Christian one asked for a faith-based school, it was denied it by the former Tory Government. We have moved to introduce a level playing field. That is all I ask. Whether my hon. Friend's community has more faith schools will be up to that community and the school organisation committee.

Mr. Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield)

The headmaster and governing body of the Henbury high school in my constituency—an important secondary school to the west of Macclesfield—have expressed an interest in becoming a faith school. Although I am a strong supporter of faith schools and Church schools, can the Secretary of State clarify whether the final decision wi11 be taken by the governing body or by a majority of the parents of children who are at the school or are likely to go to the school? If that school subsequently merges with another school, would the second school with which it is to be merged be bound by the faith status that Henbury might have achieved?

Estelle Morris

The hon. Gentleman asks me a detailed question about two schools in west Macclesfield, and I should hate to mislead the House. I am happy to clarify in a subsequent letter the details that I shall give now. My feeling is that the decision would be taken by the governing body. When a school merges, it keeps its existing status. However, it is a technical matter and I am not entirely confident about giving the hon. Gentleman an accurate answer now. I hope that he will allow me to clarify it in due course.