Science and Technology Committee (Hansard, 13 March 2001)

§ Mr. John McWilliam (Blaydon)
I beg to move,
That Mrs. Claire Curtis-Thomas be discharged from the Science and Technology Committee and Mr. Tony McWalter be added to the Committee.
I shall not detain the House, except to say that the change between the hon. Member for Crosby (Mrs. Curtis-Thomas) and the hon. Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mr. McWalter) has been agreed by both hon. Members and by all members of the Committee of Selection. I commend the motion to the House.

§ Mr. Michael Fabricant (Lichfield)
This matter should not pass without tribute being paid to the hon. Member for Corby. I have the honour of serving on the senate of the Engineering Council with the hon. Member for Corby—[HON. MEMBERS: "Crosby"]—with the hon. Member for Crosby (Mrs. Curtis?Thomas). I am grateful for that correction. The reason that I made a mistake about the hon. Lady's constituency is that I know her as "Our Claire". She serves with me on the senate of the Engineering Council and plays an active role in promoting engineering, both in the Chamber and in Westminster Hall.
I have not had a chance to speak to the hon. Lady this evening, to determine why she is leaving the Committee, although I am delighted that the hon. Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mr. McWalter) will join it. He, too, has an engineering background. He took a BSc in pure mathematics as well as one in philosophy—an interesting combination.
I have some concerns that no explanation of the change has been given, other than the fact that both hon. Members have agreed to it.

§ Mr. John Bercow (Buckingham)
I certainly do not want to cavil about the thrust of my hon. Friend's argument, but can he explain why he chose to describe a study of mathematics and philosophy as interesting for the purposes of the debate?

§ Mr. Fabricant
A friend of mine—with whom my hon. Friend is familiar—is a director of the John Lewis Partnership—

§ Madam Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Sylvia Heal)
Order. I remind the hon. Gentleman that the motion is extremely narrow.

§ Mr. Fabricant
I shall not pursue philosophy, politics and economics, but will simply point out that the hon. Member for Hemel Hempstead, who is to join the Committee—the purpose of the motion—holds undergraduate and postgraduate degrees in mathematics, which—

§ Mr. Bercow
Like Descartes.

§ Mr. Fabricant
Indeed. The holding of such degrees may or may not make an individual suitable for the Committee.
971 Why have the two hon. Members agreed to make that swap? The hon. Member for Blaydon (Mr. McWilliam), who proposed the motion, said that the two hon. Members had agreed to the swap. However, before my hon. Friend the Member for Buckingham (Mr. Bercow) intervened, I was about to ask why the swap is being made at such a late stage of the Parliament.

§ Mr. McWilliam
We do not seek to ask why Members want to change; if they want to do so, that is fine. The matter has been agreed by all parties. If the hon. Gentleman has a problem with that, he must have a problem with his Whips—he should ask them about it.

§ Mr. Fabricant
The hon. Gentleman sounds Alfred, Lord Tennyson— Their's not to reason why, Their's but to do"— but not, in this case, die—I hope.
My point is important and sound. At this late stage of a Parliament, why have two people decided to change membership on the Committee?

§ Madam Deputy Speaker
Order. The hon. Gentleman repeats the argument that he made earlier. I remind him once again of the narrowness of the motion and of the debate.

§ Mr. Fabricant
I thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker, for your guidance. I simply want to make the point that the hon. Member for Crosby has served well on the Committee—especially by promoting engineering both in the Chamber and in Westminster Hall. She has raised questions about the status of chartered engineers and members of the Engineering Council. It is most unfortunate that she is not in the House tonight to say why she is standing down. She has provided an excellent service.

§ Mr. Bercow
I echo what my hon. Friend says about the hon. Member for Crosby (Mrs. Curtis-Thomas), but does not he agree that perhaps an even more salient question is why the hon. Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mr. McWalter), who is indeed a distinguished academic, is not present to participate in, or at least observe, the proceedings of the debate about the proposal that he be added to the Committee? Why is he not here?

§ Mr. Fabricant
rose—

§ Madam Deputy Speaker
Order. The House is perfectly entitled to debate the change of membership of a Committee whether or not the Members concerned are present.

§ Mr. Fabricant
Of course you are absolutely right. Madam Deputy Speaker, but I think that my hon. Friend the Member for Buckingham is saying that perhaps there is a little arrogance in the motion, in that the two people concerned are not here tonight. But I do perfectly understand—

§ Madam Deputy Speaker
Order. Perhaps I could put it to the hon. Gentleman that that really is irrelevant to the motion that we are discussing.

§ Mr. Fabricant
I think the point is that the motion concerns the behaviour of two individual Members or, if one likes, the service that they will perform on this Committee, which is a Committee of the House, and it would have been interesting, had they been present, to determine what motivation there was for one to leave and for the other to replace them, particularly at this late stage in the Parliament. [Interruption.] It is also a late stage in the evening, and I can see that Ministers on the Treasury Bench are particularly concerned that—

§ Mr. Keith Bradley (Treasurer of Her Majesty's Household)
indicated dissent.

§ Mr. Fabricant
They are not concerned that this motion is passed quickly. There is some confusion because of these sedentary interventions from those on the Treasury Bench. Some are saying that they want this motion passed, some are not, and I am a little confused on that point.
The hon. Member for Crosby has provided good service. I hope that she will continue to provide service on the Engineering Council. Just as a very brief aside

§ Madam Deputy Speaker
Order. Once again, I must remind the hon. Member just how narrow is this particular debate. Will he please confine his remarks to it?

§ Mr. Fabricant
The motion reads: That Mrs Claire Curtis-Thomas be discharged from the Science and Technology Committee and Mr Tony McWalter be added to the Committee", but as the House authorities are allowing an hour for debate, presumably with the agreement of the Speaker, presumably there is some scope to discuss the merits of the two individuals concerned; otherwise, I cannot see how an hour, or even a minute, can be allowed for any particular area of debate.

§ Mr. Keith Bradley
indicated assent.

§ Mr. Fabricant
I see that the Deputy Chief Whip fervently agrees with me on this issue.
In conclusion, unless anyone cares to intervene on me on this point, I will not disagree with the motion, as the hon. Member for Blaydon has said that both individuals have agreed to the change. However, it would have been nice if either of them had been present. It would have been interesting to know why this is happening at such a late stage in the Parliament, unless we are going to find out that it is not a late stage in the Parliament, and that the Prime Minister is announcing that there will be a general election in May—M my 2002.