§ 3. Mr. Win Griffiths (Bridgend)If he will make a statement on his most recent discussions with the chief inspector of prisons about prison conditions in England and Wales. [156022]
§ The Minister of State, Home Office (Mr. Paul Boateng)My right hon. Friend the Home Secretary and I met Sir David Ramsbotham on 5 March to discuss his thematic report on the treatment and conditions of unsentenced prisoners in England and Wales, which was published on 11 December 2000. We discussed a variety of matters to do with conditions in our local prisons.
§ Mr. GriffithsI am sure that my right hon. Friend will know about the unannounced visit that the chief inspector made to Parc prison in my constituency, which resulted in the verdict of an excellent recovery after a very rocky start to the life of that private prison Given that the chief inspector produces reports that show that some prisons do excellent work and that others continue to fail, what discussions did my right hon. Friend have with the chief inspector to try to develop a model of management for the Prison Service that will ensure that best practice is replicated everywhere, and particularly in the prisons that have been failing?
§ Mr. BoatengI met Sir David after the inspection of Parc prison, and we meet regularly on a bilateral basis. 692 What emerges from his and my view of Parc—I have visited the prison—is that what works is effective partnership between the prison and the local community, and effective management. Those are lessons that the Prison Service—in the public and private sectors—is taking forward. We can all contribute to that, and I am glad that Sir David has, in the course of his inspection and thematic reports, made his own particular contribution.
§ Mr. Simon Burns (West Chelmsford)Following the adverse report by the chief inspector on Chelmsford prison and following the visit that the Minister and I made to the prison, will the right hon. Gentleman join me in congratulating the staff and governor of the prison on the vast improvements that they have made? I hope that, when the chief inspector carries out his next unscheduled visit, his report will be infinitely better than the previous ones.
§ Mr. BoatengI am enormously grateful to the hon. Gentleman for the interest that he has shown in his local prisons. It helps greatly when hon. Members get involved. I have every confidence in the management of Chelmsford. It, too, is making important links between the prison and the local community. I hope that that will be reflected in Sir David's subsequent reports.
§ Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley)How many asylum seekers are being held in prison in England and Wales? Is it not totally inappropriate to hold people in prison conditions who are not accused of and have not committed any crime?
§ Mr. BoatengWe hold only 1 per cent. of the total number detained at any time in prison. It is a far from ideal circumstance, but we try to ensure that when asylum seekers are held in prison, the conditions and the range of facilities available reflect their particular situation.
§ Miss Ann Widdecombe (Maidstone and The Weald)Will the prisons Minister confirm that, since 1997, the assault rate of prisoner on prisoner is up and the assault rate of prisoner on staff is up, thus making our prisons more violent; that the percentage of prisoners sharing two to a cell designed for one is up, thus making prisons more overcrowded; that the number of hours spent in purposeful activity is down, thus making prisoners more idle; that slopping out is back on some wings of some prisons, thus making them more degrading; that the number of suicides is up, thus making them more depressing; and that the time spent out of cell is down, meaning that prisoners are locked up in idleness for longer? If, as Churchill said, the measure of a civilised society is how we treat our prisoners, where does this prisons Minister stand in the civilisation stakes?
§ Mr. BoatengThe right hon. Lady knows very well that in the first two years of our stewardship of the Prison Service, we spent an additional £120 million on prisons for which she did not budget. She also knows that throughout the past four years, we have spent more year on year on education and offending behaviour programmes than her Government ever did. She should also know that this Government are serious about prison 693 reform, a task on which her Government successively failed to make any headway. The Conservatives talk about it; we do it.
§ Miss WiddecombeThe prisons Minister appears to be saying that he has spent an awful lot of money for declining results. The flip side is discipline in prison. Is it true that television in cells is not just for the enhanced levels, but for standard levels; that it is no longer permanently losable as a result of disciplinary action; and that where there are two to a cell, it is not even temporarily losable as a result of disciplinary action? Will the right hon. Gentleman also confirm that prison governors are unable to punish juvenile offenders with loss of remission or extra days and that when they smash up their cells on the last day, which one governor told me is a regular occurrence, there is nothing that the prison authorities can do? Is it not true that the Government have presided over a revolving-door prisons policy that has led to another 1,000 victims of crimes committed by those who should be in jail? Finally, in light of the success of Thorn Cross, what possible justification was there for the early destruction of the high-intensity training unit at Colchester before the research results were known?
§ Mr. BoatengThe right hon. Lady does not do justice to the seriousness of the issue by approaching it in this way. She knows that her Government introduced televisions into cells and that it is this Government, yes, who expanded the number of prisons with televisions in cells. We did that to ensure that prison governors and staff have a range of inducements and incentives to good behaviour, which are withdrawn if there is a failure in good behaviour. That makes a reality of discipline in prisons. We are not simply relying on cheap rhetoric as a substitute, which is precisely what she does time and time again.