HC Deb 26 October 2000 vol 355 cc374-6
7. Mr. Ben Bradshaw (Exeter)

What progress has been made in reducing primary class sizes in Devon; and if he will make a statement. [132592]

The Minister for School Standards (Ms Estelle Morris)

The number of primary pupils in classes of 31 or more in Devon has fallen by 6,500 since January 1998. The reduction for infant classes has been even greater, with only 810 children in classes of 31 or more in January this year, compared with more than 5,600 in January 1998.

Mr. Bradshaw

Parents and teachers in Exeter are pleased that the Government have more than delivered on their class size pledge, and that they have done so ahead of time. Four years ago, some of my classes had more than 40 pupils. There has also been a significant impact on standards. What will my right hon. Friend do to ensure that the figures continue to fall and that standards continue to rise?

Ms Morris

I thank my hon. Friend for that question. I am delighted that standards are increasing in schools in his constituency, 14 of which have extra teachers as a result of the class size policy, and two of which have extra classrooms. That is key to realising the essential good start that children need in their education. I assure my hon. Friend that class sizes for very young children will remain central to our standards policy.

Mr. Anthony Steen (Totnes)

Class sizes may be going down in Exeter but they are going up in south Devon. Is the Minister aware that 90,000 new homes are proposed for Devon but that schools in my constituency are already crammed to the gunnels and that children are already having to travel two hours each way by bus to get to school? Is not the best way to make progress to rehabilitate schools such as the Stoke Fleming primary school? School sites that already exist should be developed and more children should go to those schools, which are already good and performing well. Does the Minister accept that she will not succeed in reducing class numbers unless she either builds new schools or refurbishes old ones?

Ms Morris

Just to be clear, class sizes in Devon in infant, junior and primary schools have gone down. It is a local authority's responsibility to plan places for children who move into an area.

I am not familiar with the school that the hon. Gentleman named, but if he writes to me about it, I shall address the matter. The class size policy has resulted in extra classrooms being built. New schools are being built across the country to deal with the mobility problem to which the hon. Gentleman referred.

Mr. Bill Rammell (Harlow)

May I first congratulate you, Mr. Speaker?

I welcome the fall in class sizes in Devon and throughout the country. Does it not beggar belief to hear criticisms from Conservatives who, during the previous Parliament, said that class size did not matter?

Has my right hon. Friend observed developments in the American presidential election, where commitments are being made to reduce class sizes to fewer than 20 pupils? Perhaps we should consider building on the substantial achievements that we have already made in primary schools and seek, in the next Parliament, to reduce class sizes in primary schools even further.

Ms Morris

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that. The Opposition would, of course, abolish the standards fund, which would remove the means of funding reductions in class sizes in infant schools, which is key to the standards agenda. We were right to concentrate on class sizes for five, six and seven-year-olds because evidence from Ofsted shows that that is where class sizes matter most.

Our standards fund initiative also involves placing 20,000 extra classroom assistants in primary schools. Many primary school heads also welcome extra adults in the classroom. I suspect that in future that imaginative combination of placing well-skilled and well-trained adults in primary schools and increasing the number of teachers—both those efforts were achieved by this Government—will help to realise our key aims, which include high standards.

Mr. James Clappison (Hertsmere)

Earlier, the right hon. Lady discussed the dangers of being selective, but is she not running just that risk? Although primary school classes have gone down in Devon, secondary class sizes have gone up by more than the amount by which primary class sizes have been reduced and by more than the average secondary school class size increase in the rest of England. Is it the right hon. Lady's case that secondary class sizes do not matter? Or is she going to admit now that, taking secondary and primary class sizes together, the Government's policy has failed? Will she now admit that failure to the parents and pupils in Devon?

Ms Morris

A conversion—not only do the Opposition think that primary school class size matters, but they now believe that secondary school class size matters, too. That is a policy announcement. No, I was not being selective; the question was about primary school class sizes, which is why I did not refer to secondary school class sizes, but I shall do so now as the hon. Gentleman has asked me.

In Devon—indeed, across the country—if schools choose to use the special grant which the Secretary of State has made available to them, they could not only reduce that increase but double it. They could reduce class sizes by 0.8 per cent. The special grant puts the decision in the hands of head teachers who lead our secondary schools, so if they choose to make class sizes smaller that is their choice. The money is theirs. It is not ring-fenced; it is used for standards. If teachers choose to use it to reduce class size, they will do that. We will then have achieved classes of under 30 for infants and reduced class sizes in key stages 1 and 2, and put resources into secondary schools for heads to use at their discretion to reduce class sizes if they so wish.