§ Mr. Kevin McNamara (Hull, North)I beg to move,
That leave be given to bring in a Bill to amend the parliamentary oath; and for connected purpose.I proposed a similar Bill in July 1998 and lost by 14 votes. Whether or not this Bill is successful, I shall return to the issue, because I regard the principle contained herein as being very important.In proposing my previous Bill, I said that
the taking of an oath and the act of its swearing or affirmation is a matter of great moment in the life of a person or of a nation. No democratic institution would demand that its participants take an oath without reason. No person seeking election to perform a public service would take an oath without understanding the significance of such an act.I also quoted the universal declaration of human rights:Everyone has the right to take part in the Government of his country, directly or through freely chosen representatives.Later, I said:We recognise that the law must, without discrimination, respect the rights of citizens to seek political or public office, individually or as representatives of political parties or organisations, to ensure that the will of the people serves as the authority for government. We also recognise that parliamentary privilege is not for the benefit of Members, but protects the rights of the electorate, who depend on those whom they have elected to uphold their rights and interests in Parliament.These are the general principles of representative government and parliamentary democracy as we understand it.The taking of an oath is a serious matter. Those who are believers take it before God; others according to their ethical codes. However, it is also a public matter. We take the oath before this House and, because of television, we take it nowadays before the nation and before the world. The oath is not something to be ridiculed or demeaned; taken with crossed fingers, or under protest, or rushed and said as gibberish, or with added qualifications or mental reservations. It should he sacred; it is important.
In speaking against my Bill on that occasion, the right hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Mr. Brooke) gave me my case. He said:
If a man or woman seeks to sit in the House, the oath of allegiance is essentially the password to entry.It is a PIN number. It is an "Open Sesame" to a new and fresh Aladdin's cave full of points of order, private notice questions—hopefully, Mr. Speaker—statutory instruments and all those rich joys of Parliament.To me, the oath is more important than a gold key, a password or a means to an end. It is a solemn affirmation, or the swearing or accepting the responsibilities of representing people. For the right hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster, it may be a mere ritual. For me, it is more than that. He went on to say:
Once the password has been uttered, it does not prevent an hon. Member from seeking to change the arrangements of our constitution.—[0fficial Report, 29 July 1998; Vol. 317, c. 377–81.]What a charade that is; what hypocrisy. I suggest that we want more than that. Could a republican deny everything he believes in and then, the following day, propose a ten-minute Bill to abolish the monarchy? That is what the right hon. Gentleman said and that is quite wrong.828 The present oath of allegiance has no reference whatever to the people who send us here and no reference to our duties and obligations to the majority of people in our constituencies—and indeed to all our constituents whom we represent in this House, whether they voted for us or not. The password, the key to our being here, is the words of the returning officer, not the oath of allegiance that we take.
There is a general spirit of modernisation among Labour Members and throughout the House, not only in terms of the hours that we sit or the powers that we want Select Committees to have but in our general attitude to our relationship with society as a whole. If we are to establish the respect that we are told we are losing in society, we have to be seen to be serious people doing a serious thing—and taking the oath is a very serious thing indeed.
I have not mentioned Northern Ireland, although others will say that that is the secret agenda. The right hon. Member for Cities of London and Westminster spoke about the strategic purpose and the tactical purpose of my earlier Bill. I honestly do not know whether the two Sinn Fein Members would take their seats if the Bill were enacted. To me, that is irrelevant. If there were a united Ireland, it would not be a question, but the principle for membership of the House would still be the same.
We should look for inclusivity and ensure that there is no bar to membership of the House for those who want to be elected and are lawfully elected by their constituents. I believe that people can carry out their duties not necessarily by taking or affirming an oath of allegiance but, if they wish, by swearing, in the phraseology suggested by my right hon. Friend the Member for Chesterfield (Mr. Benn), that they will
to the best of my ability, discharge the responsibilities required of me by virtue of my membership of the House of Commons and faithfully serve those whom I represent here.I commend the Bill to the House.
§ Mr. Gerald Howarth (Aldershot)The hon. Member for Hull, North (Mr. McNamara) rightly drew to our attention the fact that this is his second bite of the cherry, as he had a go on 29 July 1998, when he said that he spoke "with some trepidation". Obviously, in the intervening time he has been able to overcome that trepidation, and he has entertained us with another case for changing the practices of the House. He is nothing if not persistent. As he also pointed out, he was defeated last time by 151 votes to 137. I am pleased to say that those who opposed him last time came from many different parties. Many Liberal Democrat Members, as well as Ulster Unionists, were against him.
I agree with the hon. Gentleman on one point: it is a solemn matter. I suspect that the vast majority in the House take that view. When they queue up at the beginning of the new Session to take the oath of allegiance, they do so with some solemnity. Most of us regard it as the most wonderful privilege to come here on behalf of those who elected us and take part in ordering the destiny of this great nation. The act of signing the register and affirming the oath is one of the privileges that 829 most of us enjoy. There may be some who dislike it and would ridicule it, but I suspect that they are in a very small minority.
The oath is part of our traditions, going back centuries. It is true that in the 17th and 18th centuries, it was in large measure—
§ Mr. Andrew Mackinlay (Thurrock)It goes back to the Stuarts.
§ Mr. HowarthYes, and in the 17th and 18th centuries it was to renounce the Stuart claim to the throne. It was also one of the bulwarks against Catholicism, which at that time represented a challenge to the sovereignty of these islands—which of course it does not today. Indeed, this House and the country are privileged to have so many adherents to the Catholic faith among us. My hon. Friend the Member for Stone (Mr. Cash) fights vigorously for the continued independence of these islands, which shows that Catholicism and the defence of sovereignty go hand in hand today—as perhaps they did not in the 17th and 18th centuries.
The oath has been changed since then, but it has stood the test of time since about 1868. For the benefit of the House, I shall rehearse some of it, to remind those hon. Members who have forgotten what it says. It states:
I… swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth, her heirs and successors, according to law. So help me God.Most of hon. Members are entirely happy to swear that oath.However, we are not alone. It is not as though Members of the House of Commons are unique in having to swear an oath of allegiance before taking their seats. Judges, magistrates and members of the armed forces do so as well—and members of the Privy Council swear a much more sophisticated oath than Members of Parliament, as the right hon. Member for Chesterfield (Mr. Benn) will know. I shall not embarrass the right hon. Gentleman by reading it out, as it might embarrass some other Labour Members—[HON. MEMBERS: "Go on, read it out"] I am being tempted by my hon. Friends, so perhaps I will.
The text of the Privy Council oath, as reported to the House by the Leader of the House on 28 July 1998, is:
You do swear by Almighty God to be a true and faithful Servant unto the Queen's Majesty, as one of Her Majesty's Privy Council. You will not know or understand of any manner of thing to be attempted, done, or spoken against Her Majesty's Person, Honour, Crown, or Dignity Royal, but you will lett and withstand the same to the uttermost of your Power, and either cause it to be revealed to Her Majesty Herself, or to such of her Privy Council as shall advertise Her Majesty of the same. You will, in all things to be moved, treated, and debated in Council, faithfully and truly declare your Mind and Opinion, according to your Heart and Conscience; and will keep secret all Matters committed and revealed unto you, or that shall be treated of secretly in Council. And if any of the said Treaties or Counsels shall touch any of the Counsellors, you will not reveal it unto him, but will keep the same until such time as, by the Consent of Her Majesty, or of the Council, Publication shall be made thereof. You will to your uttermost bear Faith and Allegiance unto the Queen's Majesty; and will assist and defend all Jurisdictions, Pre-eminences, and Authorities, granted to Her Majesty, and annexed to the Crown by Acts of Parliament, or otherwise, against all Foreign Princes, Persons, Prelates, States, or Potentates. And generally in all things you will do as a faithful and true Servant ought to do to Her Majesty. So help you God.830 In swearing the oath of allegiance, we, like judges, magistrates and other persons appointed to other positions, acknowledge that the Crown—not the person of the Queen, but the Crown—is the fount of all justice in this country. It is significant that the Welsh Assembly and the Scottish Parliament have drawn up the same sort of provisions for the swearing of an oath of allegiance as we require in this House.Therefore, the hon. Member for Hull, North should look at those legislatures before he proposes modernising the oath. Neither of those bodies has seen the need to modernise, but both have accepted the desirability of having the oath. It is right that Members of Parliament should swear an oath of allegiance to our country, as Her Majesty the Queen is the head of state. That is the system of government that the people of this country wish—it is the democratically expressed wish of the people. Therefore, it seems entirely consistent that we should take the oath of allegiance. Recent events in the United States have shown the merit of having the Head of State and the day-to-day government of the country resting in different hands.
The hon. Gentleman spoke of inclusivity. I do not believe that we should extend inclusivity to fifth columnists and traitors. Those who wish to be Members of this House and represent the people of this country should swear an oath of allegiance to the Head of State and have the interests of the country at heart.
I believe that the hon. Gentleman's real agenda is to obtain consent for the admission into this Parliament of those who have been elected to it but have chosen not to take the oath of allegiance and—some of us would argue—have done a great deal to undermine all that this country stands for. It is their decision whether they come here or not—no one is forcing them to stay away. They have simply to swear the oath of allegiance and they can take their seats in the House. They challenged it in the High Court in Northern Ireland and in the European Court of Human Rights, and they lost both cases. They lost in the European Court of Human Rights because it was deemed to be a matter for you, Mr. Speaker, and for this House, and not for anybody else.
I hope that I have made a case for the House to reject the hon. Gentleman's entreaties for the second time around and give him such a decisive view of our decision on the matter that he will spare us a third attempt.
§ Question put, pursuant to Standing Order No. 23 (Motions for leave to bring in Bills and nomination of Select Committees at commencement of public business):—
§ The House divided: Ayes 129, Noes 148.
832| Division No. 330] | 5.1 pm |
| AYES | |
| Baker, Norman | Brown, Russell (Dumfries) |
| Ballard, Jackie | Bruce, Malcolm (Gordon) |
| Banks, Tony | Burgon, Colin |
| Barnes, Harry | Cable, Dr Vincent |
| Benn, Hilary (Leeds C) | Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V) |
| Bermingham, Gerald | Campbell-Savours, Dale |
| Berry, Roger | Caton, Martin |
| Borrow, David | Cawsey, Ian |
| Bottomley, Peter (Worthing W) | Chaytor, David |
| Brake, Tom | Clapham, Michael |
| Brand, Dr Peter | Clark, Rt Hon Dr David (S Shields) |
| Brinton, Mrs Helen | Clarke, Tony (Northampton S) |
| Clwyd, Ann | McWalter, Tony |
| Cohen, Harry | McWilliam, John |
| Coleman, Iain | Mahon, Mrs Alice |
| Cook, Frank (Stockton N) | Marshall-Andrews, Robert |
| Corbett, Robin | Martlew, Eric |
| Cousins, Jim | Michie, Bill (Shef'ld Heeley) |
| Crausby, David | Mitchell, Austin |
| Cryer, Mrs Ann (Keighley) | Moran, Ms Margaret |
| Cryer, John (Hornchurch) | Morgan, Alasdair (Galloway) |
| Curtis-Thomas, Mrs Claire | Morgan, Ms Julie (Cardiff N) |
| Davidson, Ian | Mountford, Kali |
| Dawson, Hilton | Mudie, George |
| Dismore, Andrew | Murphy, Denis (Wansbeck) |
| Dobbin, Jim | Murphy, Jim (Eastwood) |
| Donohoe, Brian H | Naysmith, Dr Doug |
| Drown, Ms Julia | Oaten, Mark |
| Fitzpatrick, Jim | O'Hara, Eddie |
| Foster, Rt Hon Derek | Organ, Mrs Diana |
| Gardiner, Barry | Pickthall, Colin |
| George, Andrew (St Ives) | Pound, Stephen |
| Gibson, Dr Ian | Prentice, Gordon (Pendle) |
| Godman, Dr Norman A | Prosser, Gwyn |
| Griffiths, Jane (Reading E) | Rendel, David |
| Grogan, John | Roy, Frank |
| Harris, Dr Evan | Russell, Ms Christine (Chester) |
| Heath, David (Somerton & Frome) | Ryan, Ms Joan |
| Home Robertson, John | Sanders, Adrian |
| Hood, Jimmy | Savidge, Malcolm |
| Hopkins, Kelvin | Sawford, Phil |
| Hughes, Simon (Southwark N) | Sedgemore, Brian |
| Iddon, Dr Brian | Shaw, Jonathan |
| Illsley, Eric | Skinner, Dennis |
| Jones, Helen (Warrington N) | Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent) |
| Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C) | Soley, Clive |
| Jones, Dr Lynne (Selly Oak) | Stewart, Ian (Eccles) |
| Keeble, Ms Sally | Stinchcombe, Paul |
| Kemp, Fraser | Stoate, Dr Howard |
| Kilfoyle, Peter | Stunell, Andrew |
| King, Andy (Rugby & Kenilworth) | Temple-Morris, Peter |
| King, Ms Oona (Bethnal Green) | Thomas, Simon (Ceredigion) |
| Kingham, Ms Tess | Trickett, Jon |
| Laxton, Bob | Turner, Dr Desmond (Kemptown) |
| Linton, Martin | Turner, Neil (Wigan) |
| Livsey, Richard | Tyler, Paul |
| Lloyd, Tony (Manchester C) | Watts, David |
| Llwyd, Elfyn | Webb, Steve |
| White, Brian | |
| Love, Andrew | Williams, Alan W (E Carmarthen) |
| McCabe, Steve | Winnick, David |
| McCafferty, Ms Chris | Wood, Mike |
| McFall, John | Wright, Anthony D (Gt Yarmouth) |
| McKenna, Mrs Rosemary | |
| Mackinlay, Andrew | Tellers for the Ayes: |
| McNamara, Kevin | Mr. John McDonnell and |
| MacShane, Denis | Mr. Paul Flynn. |
| NOES | |
| Ainsworth, Peter (E Surrey) | Brady, Graham |
| Allan, Richard | Brazier, Julian |
| Amess, David | Brooke, Rt Hon Peter |
| Arbuthnot, Rt Hon James | Browning, Mrs Angela |
| Atkinson, Peter (Hexham) | Bruce, Ian (S Dorset) |
| Baldry, Tony | Burnett, John |
| Beggs, Roy | Burns, Simon |
| Beith, Rt Hon A J | Butterfill, John |
| Bell, Martin (Tatton) | Campbell, Rt Hon Menzies (NE Fife) |
| Bercow, John | |
| Boswell, Tim | Cann, Jamie |
| Bottomley, Rt Hon Mrs Virginia | Cash, William |
| Chapman, Sir Sydney (Chipping Barnet) | MacGregor, Rt Hon John |
| McIntosh, Miss Anne | |
| Chope, Christopher | MacKay, Rt Hon Andrew |
| Clappison, James | Maclean, Rt Hon David |
| Clark, Dr Michael (Rayleigh) | Maclennan, Rt Hon Robert |
| Clarke, Rt Hon Kenneth (Rushcliffe) | McLoughlin, Patrick |
| Malins, Humfrey | |
| Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey | Maples, John |
| Collins, Tim | Marsden, Paul (Shrewsbury) |
| Cran, James | Mawhinney, Rt Hon Sir Brian |
| Curry, Rt Hon David | Merron, Gillian |
| Davey, Edward (Kingston) | Moss, Malcolm |
| Davies, Quentin (Grantham) | Nicholls, Patrick |
| Davis, Rt Hon David (Haltemprice) | Norman, Archie |
| Day, Stephen | O'Brien, Stephen (Eddisbury) |
| Donaldson, Jeffrey | Öpik, Lembit |
| Dorrell, Rt Hon Stephen | Ottaway, Richard |
| Duncan, Alan | Page, Richard |
| Duncan Smith, Iain | Paice, James |
| Dunwoody, Mrs Gwyneth | Pike, Peter L |
| Emery, Rt Hon Sir Peter | Plaskitt, James |
| Evans, Nigel | Portillo, Rt Hon Michael |
| Faber, David | Prior, David |
| Fabricant, Michael | Randall, John |
| Fallon, Michael | Redwood, Rt Hon John |
| Fearn, Ronnie | Robathan, Andrew |
| Flight, Howard | Robertson, Laurence |
| Fox, Dr Liam | Rowe, Andrew (Faversham) |
| Fraser, Christopher | Ruffley, David |
| Gale, Roger | Russell, Bob (Colchester) |
| Garnier, Edward | St Aubyn, Nick |
| Gibb, Nick | Sayeed, Jonathan |
| Gill, Christopher | Simpson, Keith (Mid-Norfolk) |
| Gillan, Mrs Cheryl | Smith, Sir Robert (W Ab'd'ns) |
| Gray, James | Smyth, Rev Martin (Belfast S) |
| Green, Damian | Soames, Nicholas |
| Greenway, John | Spicer, Sir Michael |
| Grieve, Dominic | Spring, Richard |
| Gummer, Rt Hon John | Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John |
| Hague, Rt Hon William | Steen, Anthony |
| Hammond, Philip | Swayne, Desmond |
| Harris, Dr Evan | Syms, Robert |
| Hawkins, Nick | Tapsell, Sir Peter |
| Hayes, John | Taylor, David (NW Leics) |
| Heald, Oliver | Taylor, Ian (Esher & Walton) |
| Horam, John | Taylor, John M (Solihull) |
| Howard, Rt Hon Michael | Taylor, Sir Teddy |
| Hunter, Andrew | Tredinnick, David |
| Jenkin, Bernard | Trend, Michael |
| Jenkins, Brian | Tyrie, Andrew |
| Johnson Smith, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey | Viggers, Peter |
| Waterson, Nigel | |
| Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham) | Wells, Bowen |
| Keetch, Paul | Whitney, Sir Raymond |
| Key, Robert | Whittingdale, John |
| King, Rt Hon Tom (Bridgwater) | Widdecombe, Rt Hon Miss Ann |
| Kirkbride, Miss Julie | Willis, Phil |
| Laing, Mrs Eleanor | Winterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton) |
| Lait, Mrs Jacqui | Winterton, Nicholas (Macclesfield) |
| Lansley, Andrew | Woolas, Phil |
| Letwin, Oliver | Yeo, Tim |
| Lewis, Dr Julian (New Forest E) | Young, Rt Hon Sir George |
| Lidington, David | |
| Lilley, Rt Hon Peter | Tellers for the Noes: |
| Loughton, Tim | Mr. Eric Forth and |
| Luff, Peter | Mr. Gerald Howarth. |
§ Question accordingly negatived