HC Deb 08 November 2000 vol 356 cc303-4
5. Mr. Eric Forth (Bromley and Chislehurst)

What discussions he has had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer about petrol prices in Northern Ireland. [135601]

10. Mr. Peter Viggers (Gosport)

What discussions he has held with the Chancellor of the Exchequer about petrol prices in Northern Ireland. [135606]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Mr. George Howarth)

As the right hon. Gentleman is well aware, discussions between the Chancellor and Ministers on such matters are, for obvious reasons, confidential. However, if the right hon. Gentleman exercises a little patience, he may hear more on the subject later from my right hon. Friend the Chancellor.

Mr. Forth

I am grateful to the Minister. Can he tell us whether, during those discussions, any estimate has been made by his Department or by the Treasury of the loss in revenue to the Treasury as a result of cross-border smuggling of fuel for vehicles?

Mr. Howarth

As the right hon. Gentleman probably knows, there was a Select Committee report containing some estimates. There is indeed a problem, which it would be wrong not to acknowledge. My right hon. Friend the Minister of State, who is responsible for security, is working hard with the RUC and other agencies to make sure that the smuggling of petrol or other products is dealt with robustly and properly. The right hon. Gentleman has identified a problem which we recognise needs attention, and it is receiving serious attention.

Mr. Speaker

I call Mr. Viggers. He is not here.

Mr. John Hume (Foyle)

Does the Minister agree that the region that is suffering most from the petrol crisis is Northern Ireland, particularly the border counties, because of the enormous difference in price on each side of the border—85p a litre on our side and 60p a litre on the other? That is an incredible threat to the petrol industry on our side of the border, and also to the shopping centres as a result of the enormous change that has taken place because of that. Will the Government take the necessary steps to resolve the issue as soon as possible?

Mr. Howarth

The hon. Gentleman, as a distinguished Member of the European Parliament, knows that any scheme to reduce duty rates in Northern Ireland or to introduce a price subsidy scheme would require the co-operation of the Commission. Any such scheme would run into difficulties, as has been the case in other countries. Although there is a problem, which the hon. Gentleman identifies, any solution has equal difficulties attached to it.

Mr. William Ross (East Londonderry)

Given that the number of vehicles is up and the consumption of all sorts of fuel in Northern Ireland is down, is the Minister prepared to deny the estimate by some people in Northern Ireland that there has been a loss of up to £1 billion to the revenue of the United Kingdom? If he does deny that, why? Will he then produce his own estimates, as the Treasury has clearly been unable to do so?

Mr. Howarth

I acknowledged earlier that there is a problem. For the reasons mentioned by the hon. Member for Foyle (Mr. Hume), the problem has a particular impact on Northern Ireland. Speculating on the amounts involved—a Select Committee figure was mentioned—does not tell us what the solution is. We must work towards a solution that will work and will receive the co-operation of the RUC and all the other agencies, and bring it to bear on the problem. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman and the House agree that that is the sensible way forward.