HC Deb 06 November 2000 vol 356 c20
32. Mr. John Bercow (Buckingham)

What assessment he has made of the adequacy of clergy pensions. [135367]

Mr. Stuart Bell (Second Church Estates Commissioner, representing the Church Commissioners)

The formula for determining the full basic rate of clergy pension is two thirds of the previous year's national minimum stipend for incumbents. In addition, a lump sum of three times the pension is payable on retirement. As housing is provided while clergy are working, the formula recognises that clergy in retirement need to meet the cost of housing.

Mr. Bercow

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that considered reply. Given that since 1998 pensions on service have been funded by parishes themselves and that large numbers of parishes have been forced against their will to lose the services of sound and able-bodied clergymen for no other or better reason than that they have reached the age of 70, does the hon. Gentleman not agree that it would make financial sense and strike a blow against the evil of ageism if clergymen were able to continue beyond the age of 70—or, indeed, for as long as their parishioners wanted them?

Mr. Bell

I certainly appreciate the hon. Gentleman's point about ageism. All the points that the hon. Gentleman has made will be taken into account by the Archbishops Council—which has started a review of clergy stipends and is consulting widely within the Church as a part of that process. I shall ensure that the hon. Gentleman's remarks are incorporated in that review.

Dr. Brian Iddon (Bolton, South-East)

In improving the clergy's conditions of service, will my hon. Friend consider allowing them to go to an industrial tribunal if they are unfairly dismissed?

Mr. Bell

Yes. For the past three years, since my hon. Friend was first elected to the House, that point has been raised on the Floor of the House, and many hon. Members have supported that position. The point is being taken into account by various bodies within the Church, and I am hopeful that, over a longer period, we shall have the result that my hon. Friend would like.