HC Deb 27 March 2000 vol 347 cc18-9
29. Mr. David Heath (Somerton and Frome)

What recent discussions he has had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the implications for the National Audit Office of proposals within the Government Resources and Accounts Bill. [114845]

Mr. Robert Sheldon

Together with the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee, I met the Chief Secretary to the Treasury in December to put our concern that the Government Resources and Accounts Bill represented a wasted opportunity to bring the powers of the Comptroller and Auditor General and the National Audit Office in line with modern government. That concern was most recently set out in the Public Accounts Committee's ninth report of this Session. Since then, the Bill has addressed some of our concerns and the Chief Secretary has announced a study to recommend suitable audit and accountability arrangements for central Government in the 21st century. I hope that during the remainder of the Bill's passage, the Government will add appropriate enabling clauses to ensure that the review's recommendations can have statutory force.

Mr. Heath

I am sure that I speak for the entire House in warmly welcoming the right hon. Gentleman back to his place.

Does the right hon. Gentleman welcome the announcement by Ministers that they were prepared to continue to talk about bringing executive non-departmental public bodies into the remit of the National Audit Office, or is he disappointed that the necessary provisions have not already been put into the Bill? Will he take part in those discussions over the next few weeks?

Mr. Sheldon

Clearly, there is much to be done. Parliamentary accountability must go hand in hand with Government accountability. Many Treasury Ministers in the past have been allies of the ideas of the Public Accounts Committee in bringing these matters to the front, so that we could follow public money where it goes. That is the important aspect. We must be able to follow that public money, in most cases—not necessarily all, but in most cases—so that we can show that the money has been properly spent. That is the only way in which we can achieve such accountability, which both the Public Accounts Committee and the Public Accounts Commission dearly want.

Mr. Dale Campbell-Savours (Workington)

On the behalf of the staff of the National Audit Office, may I express their thanks to Mr. Duncan Goodhew for ensuring that my right hon. Friend is here today to represent the National Audit Office in the dispute with the Treasury?

Mr. Sheldon

I am overwhelmed by the generosity of so many friends.

Mr. Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (Cotswold)

May I, too, offer the right hon. Gentleman a warm welcome on his return to the House? Does he recall that during the passage of the Government Resources and Accounts Bill, we had a long discussion about the fact that the European Court of Auditors in many instances has greater access than our own Comptroller and Auditor General? Does he think that that is right?

Mr. Sheldon

Clearly, that is wrong. Not only that, but the Audit Commission has power to seek information, which the National Audit Office does not. There are obviously a number of gaps, which must be closed.