HC Deb 27 June 2000 vol 352 cc711-2
35. Mr. David Borrow (South Ribble)

What progress the Government are making towards setting up a scheme for a salaried defence service. [126371]

Mr. Lock

The Government and the Legal Services Commission intend to establish the criminal defence service on 1 April 2001. On 13 June this year, we published consultation papers on establishing a salaried defence service within the criminal defence service and on its clients' choice of representative. Responses are due by 22 September this year.

Mr. Borrow

I welcome my hon. Friend's reply and the progress that has been made in instigating a salaried defence service. What plans does my hon. Friend have to monitor the operation of the defence service once it is up and running, thus ensuring that the good idea that lies behind it is carried out in practice?

Mr. Lock

I am grateful to my hon. Friend. There are likely to be only six pilot salaried defence services out of a total of about 3,500 firms of solicitors in the criminal defence service, so we must keep the matter in context. The salaried defence service will be an independent stand-alone service within the Legal Services Commission, and there will be a research project following the establishment of the pilots to check that we can learn the lessons and ensure that we get the right quality and value for money from services provided by lawyers employed on salaries.

Mr. John Burnett (Torridge and West Devon)

During the progress of the Access to Justice Act 1999, we opposed the introduction of state defenders. How do the Government propose to overcome the inherent conflicts of interest that occur when the state acts both as prosecutor and defender?

Mr. Lock

That conflict arises in every case in which state funds are used both to prosecute and defend. Whether the lawyer is a salaried lawyer or receives a fee for the case, the paymaster remains the same. Independence is a matter of professional standards, attitude of mind and an impartial approach to the job that the defender has to do. It is not a question of whether the lawyer receives a fee or a salary cheque.

Mr. Edward Leigh (Gainsborough)

We are still waiting for costing of the service: perhaps the Minister would share that information with us.

May I caution the Minister about the salaried defender scheme, which operates in many American states, such as Texas, and often results in a second-rate service for defendants? Mr. Gary Graham, who was executed last week, was provided with such a salaried defender by the state. He was convicted after a two-day trial on the evidence of just one witness, and many doubts were raised about whether his defence was satisfactory. In fact, it was utterly inept. May I therefore caution the Minister and ask him to insist that defendants get a first-rate defence service?

Mr. Lock

I entirely understand the hon. Gentleman's point, but poor quality defence services exist in many parts of the world and their quality is totally independent of whether they are salaried or paid by a fee per case. The issue is whether there is proper remuneration for lawyers and proper quality systems. We will monitor the quality of services under the pilots, but we will not accept any special pleading on behalf of existing private practice solicitors or barristers which would prevent us from finding out what benefits can be obtained from a mixed system.