HC Deb 26 June 2000 vol 352 cc641-2
2. Mrs. Diana Organ (Forest of Dean)

What response he has received from the police about his proposals to amend licensing laws. [126118]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for the Home Department (Mr. Mike O'Brien)

As my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary said when publishing our White Paper on the reform of the licensing laws on 10 April, it would be helpful to receive responses by the end of July. I look forward to receiving comments from the Association of Chief Police Officers and other police bodies by then.

Mrs. Organ

I thank the Minister for his reply. I know that the Government's proposals are warmly welcomed by industry and by alcohol abuse organisations. However, what representations has he had from magistrates and local authorities? The magistrates bench in Coleford in Forest of Dean is particularly concerned about the issue, as the magistrates there do not believe that the local authority has the expertise to deal with the matter. Moreover, my local authority in Forest of Dean is concerned about the costs that it may incur should such a modernisation take place.

Mr. O'Brien

I agree with my hon. Friend that the new measures will be good for the police, business, consumers, families and local residents. We have had representations from magistrates and local authorities, and we will obviously take them into full and proper consideration. Magistrates will be involved in the process because the magistrates court will be the court of appeal for many of the issues and will also deal with matters relating to penalties which may need to be imposed on rogue landlords. So in those circumstances, they will retain a role.

Local authorities have expressed some concern about costs, but the White Paper contains provision for the administrative costs that fall on local authorities to be met from fees.

Mr. Michael Fabricant (Lichfield)

The Minister will know from living in the area that Lichfield is sensibly and efficiently run by a Conservative council. I have no hesitation in recommending that local authorities, when they are Conservative, should be in charge of licensing laws. However, does the Minister accept that dour, dank, possibly even corrupt, councils run by Labour may take the view that they do not want licensing laws to be extended? In those circumstances, at certain times of the evening, people will drift from those rather dour authorities into the happy, sunlit hidden uplands of areas such as Lichfield, which are sensibly run by a Conservative council.

Mr. O'Brien

There was a Labour administration in Lichfield until very recently, and I am sure that it was responsible for anything good that has been done in Lichfield.

Local residents need some say in the way in which the licensing scheme operates. After due consideration, we took the view that the best way of ensuring that local residents had a say was for their elected representatives to play a key part in making decisions. It would be regrettable if the hon. Gentleman believed that local councillors in Lichfield or elsewhere were unqualified as elected representatives to make decisions affecting local people.

Mr. Bill O'Brien (Normanton)

I thank my hon. Friend for his response to that question. There must be a review of the licensing laws, for planning and other issues. Given the expertise and material that magistrates and magistrates clerks have obtained over a period of time, I consider that magistrates should be on the licensing committees. It would be wrong to ignore the expertise in the clerks' offices and on the magistrates bench. I appeal to my hon. Friend to ensure that magistrates are included on the committees that will issue licenses following the change.

Mr. Mike O'Brien

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his contribution. I shall certainly take his views to the review that we are carrying out of the consultation on the White Paper. No doubt, many different organisations and individuals, including many hon. Members, will wish to make representations on the subject, and we shall consider them all. As I said, magistrates will continue to have an important role in the administration of licensing law and, particularly, in imposing penalties and as part of the appeals process. They will still have a role, but we wanted to ensure that we brought local authorities into the process as well. My hon. Friend's suggestion that local authorities and magistrates might work together is certainly well worth considering.