Ticket Touting (London Underground) (Hansard, 13 June 2000)

§ Mr. Neil Gerrard (Walthamstow)

I beg to move, That leave be given to bring in a Bill to amend the law in relation to the sale of London Underground tickets by unauthorised persons. I am sure that many people who travel on the underground will have seen ticket touts in action at underground stations. Hon. Members from outside London, and perhaps even some London Members who do not use the tube to come to the House every day as I do, may not be so familiar with the practice. I am sure that many people who see the touts in action think that what they are doing is relatively harmless.

London Underground carried out a survey recently. About three quarters of those who responded said that they would give their tickets to a tout—either because they did not see much harm, given that they no longer needed the ticket, or because they considered that the people asking were down on their luck and lacked the money needed to buy a ticket.

It is illegal for people to buy and sell underground tickets, but more important matters are at stake than the relatively small amounts of money involved. Although I shall return to the question of money, I do not consider it to be the main issue.

I only realised the seriousness of the nuisance caused by touts at stations when I encountered the problem in my constituency and in the borough of Waltham Forest. It is especially bad at busy underground stations in central London, but difficulties arise in parts of east London, too.

Passengers are harassed—the gentlest means are not always used—to hand over a ticket that they no longer need, or to buy a ticket from a tout. I have seen passengers at ticket machines being almost surrounded by people wanting them to buy a ticket from them.

Touts especially focus on women, and women with children, as they think that they will be easier targets. Such targeting can be a threatening experience for passengers, but people who have been harassed, or consider that they have been harassed, are reluctant to act as witnesses if a prosecution is brought.

Just last week, I was approached by a passenger as I went home from the House late one evening. He did not know about my Bill, but he asked me when something was going to be done about the touts. He explained that he had refused to hand his ticket over to touts, and that the same people had approached him, repeatedly and in a threatening manner, over the following two weeks as he went into the station on his way to work in the evening. He said that he felt quite threatened.

London Underground staff also suffer from threats, and sometimes are assaulted. I have spoken to staff members, London Underground managers and trade union representatives, and all tell the same story: staff who interfere with the touts' activities and tell them to move on are threatened and, on occasion, physically assaulted. I was told too that some members of staff who approach touts at stations have been followed on their way home. Clearly, those people are not likely to be too keen to get involved and perhaps give evidence.

The problem extends to people who work around underground stations. A newsagent told me that a knife was held to her throat when she objected to people 793 blocking her news stand as they tried to sell tickets to passengers. Two other people—a florist and a newsagent in my borough—have complained to me that their businesses have suffered because passengers do not want to visit their stalls when touts are hanging around nearby.

Ticket touts are a serious problem at many underground stations. London Underground's best estimate is that they cost about £1 million in lost revenue every year. Clearly, that is money that could be invested in the system, but the prime issue is the safety of passengers and staff.

Why is there a need for a change in the law? The degree of offence and level of penalty under the law as it stands make the problem difficult to deal with. The Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984 defines the offence as minor. Ticket touting is not, in itself, an arrestable offence—another offence would have to be committed as well for an arrest to be made. Nor is it recordable: when someone is arrested and charged, the offence is not recorded. Under London Underground byelaws, there is a maximum fine of £50, but, again, the offence is arrestable only if someone refuses to give his name and address. That is not much of a deterrent.

The levels of penalty are not very severe, and because the offence is not recordable, repeat offenders can appear in court again and again, but as far as the magistrate is concerned, they are there for the one offence which appears quite trivial—trying to sell an underground ticket for £1.50, when they did not have authority to sell it. The minor penalties, conditional discharges and tiny fines are no deterrent for repeat offenders.

The Bill would clarify and strengthen the law in this area. I do not believe that the law is the only answer. Part of the answer is for passengers not to give their tickets over when they have finished with them. As with quite a lot of pretty crime, there are links with drugs—some of the people involved undoubtedly want the money to buy drugs. I do not believe that penalties are necessarily the only answer—we need other ways of dealing with the drugs problem. However, there is no question but that we should be able to be tougher on persistent repeat offenders and those who harass passengers. The police should have the power of arrest so that it is much simpler and easier for them to deal with the problem, which would mean revision of the PACE provisions. I believe that it would be useful if the London Underground byelaws were in some way amended and brought into statute law.

That is the purpose of the Bill, which I commend to the House this afternoon.