HC Deb 08 June 2000 vol 351 cc411-4
6. Dr. Ian Gibson (Norwich, North)

What plans he has to ensure that members of ethnic minority groups have equal access to higher education. [123338]

The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education and Employment (Mr. Malcolm Wicks)

Ethnic minority students are generally well represented in higher education, although some groups still give cause for concern. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State recently announced a further £4 million to enhance the £18 million allocated to students from disadvantaged areas. Many of those from the ethnic communities will benefit from those measures.

I congratulate the many universities that reach out to different communities. For example, London Guildhall has excellent links with the local Bengali community. The university of East London also does good work. There is good work from universities throughout the country.

Dr. Gibson

I thank my hon. Friend for that reply. Is he aware of the Dearing report, which, in 1997, highlighted the persistently low participation of specific ethnic groups in the pre-1992 university system? Does he know that entry applications for 2000–01 show that the position has not improved and that percentages have decreased in some ethnic areas? Does my hon. Friend know that ethnic groups are concentrated in specific post-1992 universities, and that Dearing identified one of the reasons for that as their ethnic-friendly policies? Will he ensure that the pre-1992 universities also have such policies and do not carry a tag of institutional racism?

Mr. Wicks

It is vital that all our education institutions, including all our universities, have equal opportunities policies—not just pieces of paper, but practice to back them up. In my constituency, one third of the people are from the various ethnic communities. Increasingly, we need to look at the individual communities, rather than the aggregate, because the experience of access to universities and other institutions is very different. Of course, our universities need to be sophisticated. I am not complacent, but the numbers going to universities from ethnic communities in general have increased. We still have a lot to do.

Mr. Peter Brooke (Cities of London and Westminster)

Does the Minister accept that those of us who attend graduation ceremonies at universities in London and outside are constantly and favourably impressed by the number of members of ethnic minorities who have secured higher education qualifications, under both the present Government and the previous one?

Mr. Wicks

Of course, we congratulate those young people, their families and their teachers. However, I am concerned that young men from the African-Caribbean community, many of whom have great ability and are working well in the schools, tend to be under-represented in many of our universities. That is one area in which we are not complacent; there is still much to do.

Mr. Ian Pearson (Dudley, South)

Does my hon. Friend agree that getting a place at university should be based on ability and what one knows, not on having a toffee nose and a public school education? I urge him to continue to put pressure on universities to do more to improve access. Will he consider carefully the proposals from the Sutton Trust about how the Government can help in that process?

Mr. Wicks

The Sutton Trust, for which we all have great regard, produced its report this week. It tells us that the chance of getting into a top 13 university is approximately 25 times greater if one comes from an independent school than if one comes from a lower class or lives in a poor area. We are working on that, with summer schools and bursaries from the universities for many of those youngsters, and we are working with universities, many of which are doing good work. Indeed, many at Oxford are doing good work. That is what we should encourage. We should move on and make sure that each and every one of our young people, whether rich or poor, black or white, from north or south, has a good chance, with good A-levels, to get into our good universities.

Mr. Phil Willis (Harrogate and Knaresborough)

Does the Minister agree that one of the problems with black Afro-Caribbean boys in particular is that they are four times more likely to be excluded from school, and therefore not to participate in the education service or go to university? What is the Minister doing about that? Will he comment on the College of Law research published this week, which shows that black and Asian students graduating from university are 30 per cent. less likely to find a place in a law firm than their white counterparts? Surely that is a disgrace at the other end of the market.

Mr. Wicks

I certainly understand the last point, and none of us is complacent about the extent of racial discrimination in this country. It has implications not only for Government, but for many institutions, including those connected with the law.

With regard to exclusions, there is a difficulty, but the numbers are improving. I am aware that not only our Department, but many schools and local authorities are working extremely hard on that issue. We need to work with parents, families and mentors in the community to get it right. We can play a major role. Education maintenance allowances will enable more children this summer to think about staying on in education. Much remains to be done—it is a big issue and we are working on it.

Mr. Tony McWalter (Hemel Hempstead)

Does my hon. Friend agree that one of the key elements of the problem is that the funding basis of the further education college system, which is such an important gateway to higher education, was highly fragmented? Much still needs to be done to ensure that that conduit to higher education is made more effective than it was under the previous Government.

Mr. Wicks

I agree with my hon. Friend. That is why we are legislating for new learning and skills councils from April next year. The 47 local councils will be responsive to local needs and demands—the needs of business and employers, and also the needs of individuals—to make sure that demand and need lead the system.

We have invested record amounts in further education, because we regard it as a sector for the 21st century. We must ensure that it plays a major role in both social inclusion agendas and the economic development of local communities.

Mrs. Theresa May (Maidenhead)

Magdalen college, Oxford, has offered three ethnic minority candidates places to read medicine this autumn, in preference to other applicants. As the Prime Minister has refused to do so, will the Minister now repeat the Chancellor of the Exchequer's statement that that is an absolute scandal?

Mr. Wicks

I have great affection for the hon. Lady, but she is a poor substitute for Jeremy Paxman.

Mrs. May

Come on, answer.

Mr. Wicks

People should have equal chances of getting into our best universities, whatever their socio-economic status. At present, many children who secure top A-levels do not have those equal chances. It is a scandal that we have that inequality in Britain. The difference between us and the Opposition is that we think that it is a scandal and we are going to do something about it by applying practical measures. The Opposition are complacent. They concern themselves with the elite, while we are concerned with all children.

Mrs. May

The Minister speaks of the standard of entrants. The Government have said that they want places at medical schools to be ring-fenced for certain categories of students. People would prefer their doctors to have been selected on the basis of merit rather than political correctness. Given that rhetoric and waffle are now attracting slow handclaps from middle England, will the Minister set aside the waffle and set out for the House exactly what the Government are suggesting, and whether it involves dropping standards of entry for medical students?

Mr. Wicks

It certainly does not. Given the Prime Minister's clear target—to expand universities so that 50 per cent. of our young people have access to university education—there will be excellent places, with quality maintained, for all children with decent A-levels: yes, from the private sector, and yes, from the public sector. It is crucial for us to get the best in our universities. At present, as the Sutton Trust has demonstrated, too much talent from working-class communities is being wasted. We are determined to redress the position.

The hon. Lady may not like that answer. I may not receive a pot of jam from her.

Mr. John Bercow (Buckingham)

Sexist!

Mr. Wicks

It is not at all sexist. I know that the hon. Gentleman's application to join the Women's Institute was declined, and I can see why. What I said was not sexist at all. I will take a pot of jam from the hon. Gentleman, or from other hon. Gentlemen.

We are concerned about equal access to our top universities. That is what our party is about, and as a Government we are working on achieving it.