Engagements (Hansard, 7 June 2000)

§ Q1. Dr. George Turner (North-West Norfolk)
If he will list his official engagements for Wednesday 7 June.

§ The Prime Minister (Mr. Tony Blair)
This morning, I went to the Women's Institute, where I had an interesting exchange with some of its members. I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in the House, I shall be having further such meetings later today.

§ Dr. Turner
I am sure that I speak for the whole House if I first briefly congratulate my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister and his family on their newest arrival. We all wish them well.
280 My right hon. Friend will be aware that during his short absence political debate has returned to the old battleground of opportunities, for the many or the few, with the Tories committed—as ever—to the few. Does my right hon. Friend agree that although much has been done, there are too many barriers preventing too many people from achieving their full potential and will he commit his Government to ensuring that they may do so?

§ The Prime Minister
I agree entirely with my hon. Friend and, what is more, I am delighted to see today that teaching applications are now up 30 per cent. That is a direct result of the measures that the Government have taken and, along with the best ever literacy and numeracy results this country has seen, it shows that, slowly but surely, we are getting the education system right.

§ Mr. William Hague (Richmond, Yorks)
I very much join in the personal congratulations to the Prime Minister and his wife, and I very much welcome him back to the Floor of the House of Commons. We all know how difficult it must have been, with sleepless nights, a lot of noise and a refusal to settle down, and that was just the Chancellor of the Exchequer. Was it not a shame that the Chancellor reignited class war, plunged the Government into a complete shambles, made statements that he could not then back up, and exposed a whole catalogue of hypocrisy at the heart of new Labour? If the Prime Minister agrees with the Chancellor, as he says he does, is he prepared to repeat the assertions made by the Chancellor that Oxford admissions are scandalous and based on the old school tie?

§ The Prime Minister
It is only the Tories who could be satisfied with the numbers of children going from state schools to universities. Let me quote from the Sutton Trust's report on Monday. It said that children from independent schools are 25 times more likely to enter a top university than those from a lower social class or living in poverty. The Conservatives are happy with that situation: we believe that it has to change.

§ Mr. Hague
The Prime Minister knows all about going to university from independent schools, but it looks like the Chancellor is being hung out to dry. Should not Ministers be helping universities bring in students from all backgrounds by raising the standards of schools, rather than denouncing university admissions departments out of ignorance and spite? Does not this whole affair tell us more about the internal politics of the Labour party than the Government's approach? Has it not occurred to the Prime Minister that when the Chancellor whinges about public schoolboys getting the top jobs, he is not just talking about Oxford university? If the Prime Minister agrees with the Chancellor, is he prepared to use the same words as Chancellor about this matter?

§ The Prime Minister
First, we are investing more money to help recruit and retain the brightest students everywhere, but the issue is surely how we increase the level and quality of state education in this country. We are raising education spending as a proportion of our national income, whereas the Leader of the Opposition would cut education spending. Interruption.] Well, I shall give the figures. In the two years when the right hon. Gentleman was in the Conservative Cabinet, education spending as a 281 proportion of national income fell. Under this Government, it has risen. Who cares more about state education—the people increasing spending, or the person who cut it?

§ Mr. Hague
The Prime Minister has been asked twice to agree with the Chancellor, and twice he has hung the Chancellor out to dry. Is not the real lesson that this Government say one thing and do another? Have they not now taken hypocrisy in government to a new extreme? The Leader of the House of Lords says that her fee-paying school was a pretty standard grammar school. The Government criticise people who go to Oxford from private schools, even though their leader did so himself. Ministers attack privilege as they leave their ninth bathroom on their way to their third home in their second Jaguar.
However many times the Prime Minister relaunches this Government, is it not now clear that they are happy to use opportunity and privilege for themselves, while trying to deny it to others?

§ The Prime Minister
We do not have to talk about theory, we can talk about the record—of the Conservative Government when they were in power, and of this Government. Who put 3 million people on the dole? The Tories. Who doubled homelessness? The Tories. Who trebled child poverty? The Tories. Who doubled crime? The Tories. Who doubled the national debt? The Tories. [Interruption.] They do not like the facts, do they?
We are the Government who have put a million extra people into work, who have cut the national debt, who are investing £6 billion in school buildings, who are delivering literacy and numeracy to people. We are the Government who have introduced the minimum wage, the new deal and the working families tax credit.
The Leader of the Opposition has spoken about how the liberal elite has wrecked education in this country, but a 21-year-old will have spent every year of his or her education under a Tory Government. It is not a liberal elite that has wrecked education in this country. It is a Tory Government.

§ Mr. Robert Sheldon (Ashton-under-Lyne)
With reference, for a change, to the euro currency, may I tempt my right hon. Friend to go just a little further than he has done previously? If the Chancellor of the Exchequer is successful with his five economic tests and economic convergence, will my right hon. Friend recommend entry to the euro to the British people?

§ The Prime Minister
I am afraid that my right hon. Friend cannot tempt me to go further than the policy that the Government have set out, but I will, of course, restate it. In principle, we are in favour of joining a successful single currency, but in practice the economic conditions have to be met. What would be absolute folly would be for this country to rule out the possibility of joining the euro even if it were in our economic interests to do so.

§ Mr. Charles Kennedy (Ross, Skye and Inverness, West)
In adding my personal congratulations to the Prime Minister, may I welcome him back to Prime Minister's 282 Question Time? After what he was subjected to at this morning's Women's Institute performance, it must seem a warm and comfortable experience.
Mention has been made of access to higher and further education. Given the trends that are being revealed, does the Prime Minister welcome the fact that the Scottish Executive abolished tuition fees, so that more Scottish students can go to Scottish universities?

§ The Prime Minister
Such decisions are entirely up to the Scottish Executive: that is the point of devolution. However, I must tell the right hon. Gentleman that I do not regret changing the system here. The latest figures indicate that 40 per cent. of families in this country are exempt from tuition fees. In the end, the only way that we were able to get the numbers of people going into university away from the old cap applied under the Tories was to change the basis of student finance. In doing so, we followed the all-party Dearing committee report. It is completely absurd for political parties who joined in that report to deny its implementation.

§ Madam Speaker
Mr. Tam Dalyell.

§ Mr. Kennedy
rose—

§ Madam Speaker
No, I am sorry—your second question, Mr. Kennedy.

§ Mr. Kennedy
I consider this one a top-up, Madam Speaker. Are the Government doing any research into the fact that the figures show that the number of applications from Scottish students wanting to go to Scottish universities is up, and the number of applications from English and Welsh students wanting to attend universities is on the slide? Will the Prime Minister acknowledge that? Is it completely unconnected with the imposition of tuition fees? If we are really about opportunity, would not that be the opportunity to concentrate on, rather than the opportunism of the Chancellor of the Exchequer?

§ The Prime Minister
No, in fact, enrolment of school leavers in English universities is up, not down. It is important to recognise that if we are to expand university education, we will, like virtually every country around the world, have to have a balance. We are actually putting more money into higher education and universities, but if we want to invest properly in the facilities of those universities, and increase the numbers available to go to university, we simply have to change the system of finance. Virtually every major country around the world has had to do the same, and I think that it is right that the Government made the difficult, but right, choice to reform student finance. It is all very well for the right hon. Gentleman: as he knows, his party can sit there promising to spend limitless amounts of money, but it never says where the money comes from.