HC Deb 25 January 2000 vol 343 cc516-21

"Any person who is elected as a member of both the Northern Ireland Assembly and the legislature of Ireland shall be paid 50 per cent. of the salary of a member of the Northern Ireland Assembly".—[Mr. William Ross.]

Brought up, and read the First time.

Mr. William Ross

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

The Second Deputy Chairman of Ways and Means

With this it will be convenient to discuss new clause 5— Office costs allowanceAny person who is elected as a member of both the Northern Ireland Assembly and the legislature of Ireland shall receive no more than 50 per cent. of the office costs allowance payable to a member of the Northern Ireland Assembly".

Mr. Ross

Anyone who has read the new clauses will know exactly what they entail. I do not propose to detain the Committee for long, unless others want to take part in the debate. New clause 4 relates to the salary paid to a person elected a Member of the Northern Ireland Assembly and the legislature of Ireland. Such a person would be paid 50 per cent. of the salary of a Member of the Northern Ireland Assembly. I hope that he would be paid the same from the Dail, although I have no control over that.

Some might think new clause 4 to be rather harsh, but it is generous. I understand that those who are Members of the House and of the European Parliament receive a full salary from one place, but only a third of their salary from the other. In effect, they are no better off, but the real problem lies with new clause 5, which would cut the office costs allowance paid to a Member by 50 per cent. Members would receive half the full amount of salary and office costs allowance that they could claim. The trouble is that those who have a representative role in Europe can claim 100 per cent. of their allowances from the House and 100 per cent. of the office costs allowance from Europe. That is unreasonable, but it seems even less reasonable when we consider the situation in the Northern Ireland Assembly.

If a workman worked only two and a half days a week instead of five, one would not pay him for five days' work. This new clause is most reasonable, so I hope that the Minister will recognise the force of my argument and accept it. It is completely in line with the policy pursued by successive Governments. I hope that the Minister will apply this proposal or something close to it.

Mr. George Howarth

As the hon. Gentleman rightly said, the two new clauses would abate by 50 per cent. the salaries and allowances of Members of the Northern Ireland Assembly who are also Members of the Irish legislature. They would apply the abatement to Members of the Dail and the Seanad.

I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman has examined section 47 of the Northern Ireland Act 1998, but it requires that an Assembly Member's salary be abated if he is also a Member of the House of Commons. No such abatement is applied in respect of Members of the Irish Seanad, who may already sit as Members of the Assembly.

Since devolution on 2 December 1999, the Assembly has had the power under section 47 of the 1998 Act to determine the salaries and allowances of its Members. It is already within the Assembly's powers under those provisions to abate salaries and allowances in the manner proposed in the new clause if it so chooses. Given that the Assembly already has that power, the Government see no need to make special provision in the Bill.

I know that the hon. Gentleman takes a close interest in these matters. He will be aware that the Assembly has already chosen to use those powers. That being the case, the new clause is unnecessary, although it is important to express the principle. The Assembly has those powers, and that is the right place for them to be exercised.

Mr. Ross

I am afraid that I cannot agree with the Minister. I think that the place in which to put down the marker is this House. We are dealing with a subordinate legislature, and there is no guarantee that it will apply the principle that I have enunciated and that applies in Europe. I am setting out a general principle that should apply right across the board, which is that Members can draw a salary only for the amount of work they do, and they can draw only the secretarial allowances that apply to that work.

In all truth, it was the thought of some hon. Members not carrying out all their duties but drawing their salaries and lifting £100,000 or thereabouts in allowances that sparked off this amendment in my mind. The principle embodied in the new clause is sound. If the Minister is not prepared to be more reasonable than he has been hitherto, I shall press the new clause to a vote.

Sir Patrick Cormack

The Minister has acknowledged the validity of the proposition tabled by my hon. Friend. The only difference between us is whether it should be enshrined in the Bill. We can see no good reason why it should not be, so we would advise right hon. and hon. Friends to support the new clause.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time:—

The Committee divided: Ayes 139, Noes 337.

Division No. 49] [4.54 pm
Ainsworth, Peter (E Surrey) Greenway, John
Ancram, Rt Hon Michael Grieve, Dominic
Arbuthnot, Rt Hon James Hague, Rt Hon William
Ashdown, Rt Hon Paddy Hamilton, Rt Hon Sir Archie
Atkinson, Peter (Hexham) Hammond, Philip
Baldry, Tony Hawkins, Nick
Ballard, Jackie Hayes, John
Beggs, Roy Heald, Oliver
Beith, Rt Hon A J Heath, David (Somerton & Frome)
Bell, Martin (Tatton) Heathcoat-Amory, Rt Hon David
Bercow, John Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas
Beresford, Sir Paul Horam, John
Blunt, Crispin Howarth, Gerald (Aldershot)
Body, Sir Richard Hughes, Simon (Southwark N)
Boswell, Tim Jack, Rt Hon Michael
Bottomley, Peter (Worthing W) Jenkin, Bernard
Bottomley, Rt Hon Mrs Virginia Johnson Smith, Rt Hon Sir Geoffrey
Brady, Graham
Brake, Tom Jones, Nigel (Cheltenham)
Brazier, Julian Keetch, Paul
Breed, Colin Key, Robert
Browning, Mrs Angela King, Rt Hon Tom (Bridgwater)
Bruce, Ian (S Dorset) Kirkbride, Miss Julie
Burnett, John Laing, Mrs Eleanor
Burns, Simon Lait, Mrs Jacqui
Burstow, Paul Lansley, Andrew
Butterfill, John Letwin, Oliver
Cable, Dr Vincent Lewis, Dr Julian (New Forest E)
Campbell, Rt Hon Menzies (NE Fife) Lidington, David
Lloyd, Rt Hon Sir Peter (Fareham)
Cash, William Llwyd, Elfyn
Chope, Christopher Loughton, Tim
Cormack, Sir Patrick Luff, Peter
Cotter, Brian Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas
Cran, James MacGregor, Rt Hon John
Curry, Rt Hon David McIntosh, Miss Anne
Davey, Edward (Kingston) MacKay, Rt Hon Andrew
Davies, Quentin (Grantham) Maclean, Rt Hon David
Day, Stephen McLoughlin, Patrick
Donaldson, Jeffrey Madel, Sir David
Dorrell, Rt Hon Stephen Maginnis, Ken
Duncan, Alan Major, Rt Hon John
Duncan Smith, Iain Maples, John
Emery, Rt Hon Sir Peter Mates, Michael
Evans, Nigel Maude, Rt Hon Francis
Faber, David Mawhinney, Rt Hon Sir Brian
Fabricant, Michael May, Mrs Theresa
Fallon, Michael Michie, Mrs Ray (Argyll & Bute)
Fearn, Ronnie Moore, Michael
Flight, Howard Moss, Malcolm
Forsythe, Clifford Nicholls, Patrick
Forth, Rt Hon Eric Norman, Archie
Foster, Don (Bath) O'Brien, Stephen (Eddisbury)
Fowler, Rt Hon Sir Norman Ottaway, Richard
Fox, Dr Liam Page, Richard
Fraser, Christopher Paice, James
Gale, Roger Paterson, Owen
George, Andrew (St Ives) Pickles, Eric
Gibb, Nick Portillo, Rt Hon Michael
Gill, Christopher Prior, David
Gillan, Mrs Cheryl Randall, John
Gorman, Mrs Teresa Redwood, Rt Hon John
Gray, James Rendel, David
Green, Damian Robathan, Andrew
Robertson, Laurence Taylor, Matthew (Truro)
Roe, Mrs Marion (Broxboume) Taylor, Sir Teddy
Ross, William (E Lond'y) Thompson, William
Rowe, Andrew (Faversham) Tonge, Dr Jenny
Ruffley, David Trend, Michael
Russell, Bob (Colchester) Tyler, Paul
St Aubyn, Nick Tyrie, Andrew
Sanders, Adrian Viggers, Peter
Sayeed, Jonathan Walter, Robert
Shephard, Rt Hon Mrs Gillian Waterson, Nigel
Shepherd, Richard Webb, Steve
Simpson, Keith (Mid-Norfolk) Wells, Bowen
Smith, Sir Robert (W Ab'd'ns) Whitney, Sir Raymond
Soames, Nicholas Whittingdale, John
Spelman, Mrs Caroline Widdecombe, Rt Hon Miss Ann
Spicer, Sir Michael Willetts, David
Spring, Richard Willis, Phil
Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John Winterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton)
Steen, Anthony Winterton, Nicholas (Macclesfield)
Streeter, Gary Yeo, Tim
Stunell, Andrew Young, Rt Hon Sir George
Swayne, Desmond
Syms, Robert Tellers for the Ayes:
Tapsell, Sir Peter Rev. Martin Smyth and
Taylor, Ian (Esher & Walton) Mr. Geoffrey Clifton-
Taylor, John M (Solihull) Brown.
Abbott, Ms Diane Casale, Roger
Adams, Mrs Irene (Paisley N) Cawsey, Ian
Ainger, Nick Chaytor, David
Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE) Clapham, Michael
Alexander, Douglas Clark, Dr Lynda (Edinburgh Pentlands)
Allen, Graham
Anderson, Donald (Swansea E) Clark, Paul (Gillingham)
Anderson, Janet (Rossendale) Clarke, Charles (Norwich S)
Armstrong, Rt Hon Ms Hilary Clarke, Eric (Midlothian)
Ashton, Joe Clarke, Rt Hon Tom (Coatbridge)
Atkins, Charlotte Clarke, Tony (Northampton S)
Austin, John Clelland, David
Banks, Tony Clwyd, Ann
Barnes, Harry Coaker, Vernon
Battle, John Coffey, Ms Ann
Beard, Nigel Coleman, Iain
Beckett, Rt Hon Mrs Margaret Colman, Tony
Bell, Stuart (Middlesbrough) Connarty, Michael
Benn, Hilary (Leeds C) Cook, Frank (Stockton N)
Benn, Rt Hon Tony (Chesterfield) Cooper, Yvette
Bennett, Andrew F Corbett, Robin
Benton, Joe Corbyn, Jeremy
Bermingham, Gerald Corston, Jean
Berry, Roger Cousins, Jim
Best, Harold Cranston, Ross
Betts, Clive Crausby, David
Blears, Ms Hazel Cryer, John (Hornchurch)
Blizzard, Bob Cummings, John
Blunkett, Rt Hon David Cunningham, Jim (Cov'try S)
Borrow, David Curtis-Thomas, Mrs Claire
Bradley, Keith (Withington) Dalyell, Tam
Bradley, Peter (The Wrekin) Darling, Rt Hon Alistair
Bradshaw, Ben Darvill, Keith
Brinton, Mrs Helen Davey, Valerie (Bristol W)
Brown, Rt Hon Gordon (Dunfermline E) Davidson, Ian
Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli)
Brown, Russell (Dumfries) Davies, Geraint (Croydon C)
Browne, Desmond Dawson, Hilton
Burden, Richard Dean, Mrs Janet
Burgon, Colin Denham, John
Butler, Mrs Christine Dismore, Andrew
Byers, Rt Hon Stephen Dobbin, Jim
Campbell, Alan (Tynemouth) Donohoe, Brian H
Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V) Doran, Frank
Campbell-Savours, Dale Dowd, Jim
Canavan, Dennis Eagle, Angela (Wallasey)
Cann, Jamie Eagle, Maria (L'pool Garston)
Caplin, Ivor Edwards, Huw
Efford, Clive Lloyd, Tony (Manchester C)
Ellman, Mrs Louise Lock, David
Ennis, Jeff Love, Andrew
Field, Rt Hon Frank McAvoy, Thomas
Fisher, Mark McCabe, Steve
Fitzsimons, Loma McCartney, Rt Hon Ian (Makerfield)
Follett, Barbara
Foster, Rt Hon Derek McDonagh, Siobhain
Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings) Macdonald, Calum
Foster, Michael J (Worcester) McDonnell, John
Galloway, George McFall, John
Gapes, Mike McGuire, Mrs Anne
Gardiner, Barry McIsaac, Shona
Gerrard, Neil Mackinlay, Andrew
Gibson, Dr Ian McNulty, Tony
Gilroy, Mrs Linda MacShane, Denis
Godsiff, Roger Mactaggart, Fiona
Goggins, Paul McWalter, Tony
Golding, Mrs Llin McWilliam, John
Griffiths, Jane (Reading E) Mahon, Mrs Alice
Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S) Mallaber, Judy
Griffiths, Win (Bridgend) Marsden, Gordon (Blackpool S)
Grocott, Bruce Marsden, Paul (Shrewsbury)
Hain, Peter Marshall, David (Shettleston)
Hall, Mike (Weaver Vale) Marshall, Jim (Leicester S)
Hall, Patrick (Bedford) Marshall-Andrews, Robert
Hamilton, Fabian (Leeds NE) Martlew, Eric
Hanson, David Maxton, John
Harman, Rt Hon Ms Harriet Meale, Alan
Heal, Mrs Sylvia Michie, Bill (Shef'ld Heeley)
Healey, John Milburn, Rt Hon Alan
Henderson, Ivan (Harwich) Miller, Andrew
Hepburn, Stephen Mitchell, Austin
Heppell, John Moffatt, Laura
Hewitt, Ms Patricia Moonie, Dr Lewis
Hill, Keith Moran, Ms Margaret
Hodge, Ms Margaret Morley, Elliot
Hood, Jimmy Morris, Rt Hon Ms Estelle (B'ham Yardley)
Hope, Phil
Hopkins, Kelvin Morris, Rt Hon Sir John (Aberavon)
Howarth, Alan (Newport E)
Howarth, George (Knowsley N) Mountford, Kali
Hoyle, Lindsay Mudie, George
Hughes, Ms Beverley (Stretford) Murphy, Denis (Wansbeck)
Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N) Murphy, Jim (Eastwood)
Hurst, Alan Murphy, Rt Hon Paul (Torfaen)
Iddon, Dr Brian Norris, Dan
Illsley, Eric O'Brien, Bill (Normanton)
Jackson, Helen (Hillsborough) O'Brien, Mike (N Warks)
Jamieson, David Olner, Bill
Jenkins, Brian O'Neill, Martin
Johnson, Miss Melanie (Welwyn Hatfield) Osborne, Ms Sandra
Palmer, Dr Nick
Jones, Helen (Warrington N) Pearson, Ian
Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C) Pendry, Tom
Jones, Dr Lynne (Selly Oak) Perham, Ms Linda
Jones, Martyn (Clwyd S) Pickthall, Colin
Jowell, Rt Hon Ms Tessa Pike, Peter L
Kaufman, Rt Hon Gerald Plaskitt, James
Keeble, Ms Sally Pond, Chris
Keen, Alan (Feltham & Heston) Powell, Sir Raymond
Kelly, Ms Ruth Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lewisham E)
Kemp, Fraser Prentice, Gordon (Pendle)
Kennedy, Jane (Wavertree) Prescott, Rt Hon John
Kidney, David Primarolo, Dawn
King, Ms Oona (Bethnal Green) Prosser, Gwyn
Kumar, Dr Ashok Purchase, Ken
Ladyman, Dr Stephen Quinn, Lawrie
Laxton, Bob Radice, Rt Hon Giles
Lepper, David Rammell, Bill
Leslie, Christopher Reed, Andrew (Loughborough)
Levitt, Tom Reid, Rt Hon Dr John (Hamilton N)
Lewis, Ivan (Bury S) Roche, Mrs Barbara
Lewis, Terry (Worsley) Rogers, Allan
Liddell, Rt Hon Mrs Helen Rooker, Rt Hon Jeff
Linton, Martin Rooney, Terry
Ross, Ernie (Dundee W) Thomas, Gareth R (Harrow W)
Roy, Frank Timms, Stephen
Ruddock, Joan Tipping, Paddy
Russell, Ms Christine (Chester) Todd, Mark
Ryan, Ms Joan Touhig, Don
Salter, Martin Trickett, Jon
Sarwar, Mohammad Truswell, Paul
Savidge, Malcolm Turner, Dennis (Wolverh'ton SE)
Sawford, Phil Turner, Dr Desmond (Kemptown)
Sedgemore, Brian Turner, Dr George (NW Norfolk)
Shaw, Jonathan Turner, Neil (Wigan)
Sheerman, Barry Twigg, Derek (Halton)
Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert Twigg, Stephen (Enfield)
Shipley, Ms Debra Tynan, Bill
Simpson, Alan (Nottingham S) Ward, Ms Claire
Singh, Marsha Wareing, Robert N
Skinner, Dennis Watts, David
Smith, Rt Hon Andrew (Oxford E) White, Brian
Smith, Angela (Basildon) Whitehead, Dr Alan
Smith, Jacqui (Redditch) Wicks, Malcolm
Smith, LJew (Blaenau Gwent) Williams, Rt Hon Alan (Swansea W)
Snape, Peter
Soley, Clive Williams, Mrs Betty (Conwy)
Southworth, Ms Helen Wilson, Brian
Spellar, John Winnick, David
Squire, Ms Rachel Winterton, Ms Rosie (Doncaster C)
Starkey, Dr Phyllis Wood, Mike
Steinberg, Gerry Woolas, Phil
Stevenson, George Worthington, Tony
Stewart, David (Inverness E) Wray, James
Stinchcombe, Paul Wright, Anthony D (Gt Yarmouth)
Strang, Rt Hon Dr Gavin Wright, Dr Tony (Cannock)
Stuart, Ms Gisela
Taylor, Ms Dari (Stockton S) Tellers for the Noes:
Taylor, David (NW Leics) Mr. Greg Pope and
Temple-Morris, Peter Mr. Gerry Sutcliffe.
Division No. 51] [7.19 pm
Abbott, Ms Diane Anderson, Janet (Rossendale)
Adams, Mrs Irene (Paisley N) Armstrong, Rt Hon Ms Hilary
Ainger, Nick Ashdown, Rt Hon Paddy
Ainsworth, Robert (Cov'try NE) Ashton, Joe
Alexander, Douglas Atkins, Charlotte
Allen, Graham Austin, John
Anderson, Donald (Swansea E) Ballard, Jackie
Banks, Tony Donohoe, Brian H
Barnes, Harry Doran, Frank
Battle, John Dowd, Jim
Bayley, Hugh Drew, David
Beard, Nigel Eagle, Angela (Wallasey)
Beckett, Rt Hon Mrs Margaret Eagle, Maria (L'pool Garston)
Bell, Martin (Tatton) Edwards, Huw
Bell, Stuart (Middlesbrough) Efford, Clive
Benn, Hilary (Leeds C) Ellman, Mrs Louise
Benn, Rt Hon Tony (Chesterfield) Ennis, Jeff
Bennett, Andrew F Fearn, Ronnie
Benton, Joe Field, Rt Hon Frank
Bermingham, Gerald Fisher, Mark
Berry, Roger Follett, Barbara
Best, Harold Foster, Rt Hon Derek
Betts, Clive Foster, Don (Bath)
Blackman, Liz Foster, Michael Jabez (Hastings)
Blears, Ms Hazel Foster, Michael J (Worcester)
Blizzard, Bob Foulkes, George
Borrow, David Galloway, George
Bradley, Keith (Withington) Gapes, Mike
Bradley, Peter (The Wrekin) Gardiner, Barry
Bradshaw, Ben George, Andrew (St Ives)
Breed, Colin Gerrard, Neil
Brinton, Mrs Helen Gibson, Dr Ian
Brown, Russell (Dumfries) Godsiff, Roger
Browne, Desmond Goggins, Paul
Burden, Richard Golding, Mrs Llin
Burgon, Colin Gordon, Mrs Eileen
Burstow, Paul Griffiths, Jane (Reading E)
Butler, Mrs Christine Griffiths, Nigel (Edinburgh S)
Campbell, Alan (Tynemouth) Griffiths, Win (Bridgend)
Campbell, Ronnie (Blyth V) Grocott, Bruce
Campbell-Savours, Dale Grogan, John
Canavan, Dennis Gunnell, John
Cann, Jamie Hain, Peter
Caplin, Ivor Hall, Patrick (Bedford)
Casale, Roger Hamilton, Fabian (Leeds NE)
Cawsey, Ian Hanson, David
Chapman, Ben (Wirral S) Harman, Rt Hon Ms Harriet
Chaytor, David Heal, Mrs Sylvia
Clapham, Michael Heath, David (Somerton & Frome)
Clark, Dr Lynda (Edinburgh Pentlands) Henderson, Ivan (Harwich)
Hepburn, Stephen
Clark, Paul (Gillingham) Heppell, John
Clarke, Charles (Norwich S) Hesford, Stephen
Clarke, Eric (Midlothian) Hewitt, Ms Patricia
Clarke, Rt Hon Tom (Coatbridge) Hill, Keith
Clarke, Tony (Northampton S) Hinchliffe, David
Clelland, David Hodge, Ms Margaret
Clwyd, Ann Hood, Jimmy
Coaker, Vernon Hope, Phil
Coffey, Ms Ann Hopkins, Kelvin
Coleman, Iain Howarth, George (Knowsley N)
Colman, Tony Hoyle, Lindsay
Connarty, Michael Hughes, Ms Beverley (Stretford)
Cook, Frank (Stockton N) Hughes, Kevin (Doncaster N)
Corbett, Robin Hughes, Simon (Southwark N)
Corbyn, Jeremy Hurst, Alan
Corston, Jean Iddon, Dr Brian
Cotter, Brian Illsley, Eric
Cranston, Ross Ingram, Rt Hon Adam
Crausby, David Jackson, Helen (Hillsborough)
Cryer, John (Hornchurch) Jamieson, David
Cummings, John Jenkins, Brian
Cunningham, Jim (Cov'try S) Johnson, Miss Melanie (Welwyn Hatfield)
Curtis-Thomas, Mrs Claire
Darvill, Keith Jones, Helen (Warrington N)
Davey, Valerie (Bristol W) Jones, Jon Owen (Cardiff C)
Davidson, Ian Jones, Dr Lynne (Selly Oak)
Davies, Rt Hon Denzil (Llanelli) Jones, Martyn (Clwyd S)
Davies, Geraint (Croydon C) Jowell, Rt Hon Ms Tessa
Dean, Mrs Janet Keeble, Ms Sally
Denham, John Keen, Alan (Feltham & Heston)
Dismore, Andrew Kelly, Ms Ruth
Dobbin, Jim Kemp, Fraser
Kennedy, Jane (Wavertree) Prentice, Ms Bridget (Lewisham E)
Kidney, David Prentice, Gordon (Pendle)
Kilfoyle, Peter Primarolo, Dawn
King, Ms Oona (Bethnal Green) Prosser, Gwyn
Kumar, Dr Ashok Purchase, Ken
Ladyman, Dr Stephen Quin, Rt Hon Ms Joyce
Laxton, Bob Quinn, Lawrie
Lepper, David Radice, Rt Hon Giles
Leslie, Christopher Rammell, Bill
Levitt, Tom Reed, Andrew (Loughborough)
Lewis, Ivan (Bury S) Reid, Rt Hon Dr John (Hamilton N)
Lewis, Terry (Worsley) Rendel, David
Liddell, Rt Hon Mrs Helen Rooney, Terry
Linton, Martin Ross, Ernie (Dundee W)
Lloyd, Tony (Manchester C) Roy, Frank
Llwyd, Elfyn Ruddock, Joan
Lock, David Russell, Bob (Colchester)
Love, Andrew Russell, Ms Christine (Chester)
McAvoy, Thomas Ryan, Ms Joan
McCartney, Rt Hon Ian (Makerfield) Salter, Martin
Sanders, Adrian
McDonagh, Siobhain Sarwar, Mohammad
Macdonald, Calum Savidge, Malcolm
McDonnell, John Sawford, Phil
McFall, John Sedgemore, Brian
McGuire, Mrs Anne Shaw, Jonathan
McIsaac, Shona Sheerman, Barry
Mackinlay, Andrew Sheldon, Rt Hon Robert
Maclennan, Rt Hon Robert Shipley, Ms Debra
McNulty, Tony Simpson, Alan (Nottingham S)
MacShane, Denis Singh, Marsha
Mactaggart, Fiona Skinner, Dennis
McWalter, Tony Smith, Rt Hon Andrew (Oxford E)
McWilliam, John Smith, Jacqui (Redditch)
Mahon, Mrs Alice Smith, Llew (Blaenau Gwent)
Mallaber, Judy Smith, Sir Robert (W Ab'd'ns)
Marsden, Gordon (Blackpool S) Snape, Peter
Marsden, Paul (Shrewsbury) Southworth, Ms Helen
Marshall, David (Shettleston) Spellar, John
Marshall, Jim (Leicester S) Squire, Ms Rachel
Marshall-Andrews, Robert Starkey, Dr Phyllis
Martlew, Eric Steinberg, Gerry
Maxton, John Stevenson, George
Meale, Alan Stewart, David (Inverness E)
Merron, Gillian Stinchcombe, Paul
Michie, Bill (Shef'ld Heeley) Stoate, Dr Howard
Michie, Mrs Ray (Argyll & Bute) Strang, Rt Hon Dr Gavin
Miller, Andrew Stuart, Ms Gisela
Mitchell, Austin Stunell, Andrew
Moonie, Dr Lewis Sutcliffe, Gerry
Moore, Michael Taylor, Ms Dari (Stockton S)
Moran, Ms Margaret Taylor, David (NW Leics)
Morris, Rt Hon Ms Estelle (B'ham Yardley) Taylor, Matthew (Truro)
Thomas, Gareth R (Harrow W)
Morris, Rt Hon Sir John (Aberavon) Timms, Stephen
Tipping, Paddy
Mountford, Kali Todd, Mark
Mudie, George Tonge, Dr Jenny
Mullin, Chris Trickett, Jon
Murphy, Denis (Wansbeck) Truswell, Paul
Murphy, Jim (Eastwood) Turner, Dennis (Wolverh'ton SE)
Murphy, Rt Hon Paul (Torfaen) Turner, Dr Desmond (Kemptown)
Norris, Dan Turner, Dr George (NW Norfolk)
O'Brien, Bill (Normanton) Turner, Neil (Wigan)
O'Brien, Mike (N Warks) Twigg, Derek (Halton)
Olner, Bill Twigg, Stephen (Enfield)
Osborne, Ms Sandra Tyler, Paul
Palmer, Dr Nick Tynan, Bill
Pearson, Ian Ward, Ms Claire
Pendry, Tom Wareing, Robert N
Pickthall, Colin Watts, David
Plaskitt, James Webb, Steve
Pollard, Kerry Welsh, Andrew
Pond, Chris White, Brian
Pope, Greg Whitehead, Dr Alan
Powell, Sir Raymond Wicks, Malcolm
Williams, Rt Hon Alan (Swansea W) Woolas, Phil
Worthington, Tony
Williams, Mrs Betty (Conwy) Wray, James
Willis, Phil Wright, Anthony D (Gt Yarmouth)
Wilson, Brian Wright, Dr Tony (Cannock)
Winnick, David
Winterton, Ms Rosie (Doncaster C) Tellers for the Ayes:
Wise, Audrey Mr. Mike Hall and
Wood, Mike Mr. Don Touhig.
Ainsworth, Peter (E Surrey) Emery, Rt Hon Sir Peter
Amess, David Evans, Nigel
Arbuthnot, Rt Hon James Faber, David
Beggs, Roy Fabricant, Michael
Bercow, John Fallon, Michael
Beresford, Sir Paul Flight, Howard
Blunt, Crispin Forsythe, Clifford
Body, Sir Richard Forth, Rt Hon Eric
Boswell, Tim Fowler, Rt Hon Sir Norman
Bottomley, Peter (Worthing W) Fox, Dr Liam
Bottomley, Rt Hon Mrs Virginia Fraser, Christopher
Brady, Graham Gale, Roger
Brazier, Julian Gibb, Nick
Brooke, Rt Hon Peter Gill, Christopher
Browning, Mrs Angela Gillan, Mrs Cheryl
Bruce, Ian (S Dorset) Gorman, Mrs Teresa
Burns, Simon Gray, James
Butterfill, John Green, Damian
Cash, William Greenway, John
Chope, Christopher Grieve, Dominic
Clark, Dr Michael (Rayleigh) Hamilton, Rt Hon Sir Archie
Clifton-Brown, Geoffrey Hammond, Philip
Collins, Tim Hawkins, Nick
Cormack, Sir Patrick Hayes, John
Cran, James Heald, Oliver
Curry, Rt Hon David Heathcoat-Amory, Rt Hon David
Davies, Quentin (Grantham) Hogg, Rt Hon Douglas
Davis, Rt Hon David (Haltemprice) Horam, John
Day, Stephen Howard, Rt Hon Michael
Donaldson, Jeffrey Howarth, Gerald (Aldershot)
Dorrell, Rt Hon Stephen Jack, Rt Hon Michael
Duncan, Alan Jenkin, Bernard
Duncan Smith, Iain Key, Robert
King, Rt Hon Tom (Bridgwater) Roe, Mrs Marion (Btoxbourne)
Kirkbride, Miss Julie Ross, William (E Lond'y)
Lait, Mrs Jacqui Rowe, Andrew (Faversham)
Lansley, Andrew Ruffley, David
Leigh, Edward St Aubyn, Nick
Letwin, Oliver Sayeed, Jonathan
Lewis, Dr Julian (New Forest E) Shephard, Rt Hon Mrs Gillian
Lidington, David Shepherd, Richard
Lilley, Rt Hon Peter Simpson, Keith (Mid-Norfolk)
Lloyd, Rt Hon Sir Peter (Fareham) Smyth, Rev Martin (Belfast S)
Loughton, Tim Soames, Nicholas
Luff, Peter Spelman, Mrs Caroline
Lyell, Rt Hon Sir Nicholas Spicer, Sir Michael
MacGregor, Rt Hon John Spring, Richard
McIntosh, Miss Anne Stanley, Rt Hon Sir John
MacKay, Rt Hon Andrew Swayne, Desmond
Maclean, Rt Hon David Syms, Robert
McLoughlin, Patrick Tapsell, Sir Peter
Madel, Sir David Taylor, Ian (Esher & Walton)
Maginnis, Ken Taylor, John M (Solihull)
Major, Rt Hon John Taylor, Sir Teddy
Maples, John Thompson, William
Maude, Rt Hon Francis Tredinnick, David
Mawhinnev Rt Hon Sir Brian Trend, Michael
Tyrie, Andrew
May, Mrs Theresa Viggers, Peter
Moss, Malcolm Walter, Robert
Nicholls, Patrick Waterson, Nigel
Norman, Archie Wells, Bowen
O'Brien, Stephen (Eddisbury) Whitney, Sir Raymond
Ottaway, Richard Whittingdale, John
Page, Richard Willetts, David
Paice, James Winterton, Mrs Ann (Congleton)
Paterson, Owen Winterton, Nicholas (Macclesfield)
Pickles, Eric Yeo, Tim
Portillo, Rt Hon Michael Young, Rt Hon Sir George
Randall, John
Redwood, Rt Hon John Tellers for the Noes:
Robathan, Andrew Mrs. Eleanor Laing and
Robertson. Laurence Mr. Peter Atkinson.

Question accordingly negatived.