§ 32. Mr. Owen Paterson (North Shropshire)If he will make a statement on the future of rural magistrates courts. [118158]
§ The Parliamentary Secretary, Lord Chancellor's Department (Jane Kennedy)I refer the hon. Gentleman to the answer that I gave him on 25 January 2000 at column 180W.
§ Mr. PatersonShropshire's courts have been placed in an area coterminous with West Mercia police authority's area leading to real fears that the six petty session divisions in Shropshire may go the way of those in Hereford, where there is now only one. Going to court is traumatic enough, especially for elderly witnesses, without having to face extra costs and the difficulties of travelling long distances. Will the Minister guarantee that the Government have no covert policy to close magistrates courts in rural areas?
§ Jane KennedyI can give the hon. Gentleman that assurance. The Shropshire magistrates courts committee has no proposals for courthouse closures or for any internal reorganisation.
§ Mr. Dale Campbell-Savours (Workington)To what extent have the changes been driven by public expenditure?
§ Jane KennedyChanges to the boundaries of MCCs are not cost driven, but are designed to meet the improved efficiencies that will arise from the coterminous nature of the new committees in relation to police authorities and the probation services.
§ Mr. John Burnett (Torridge and West Devon)Last week it was announced that nine magistrates courts would close in Devon and Cornwall, which will deny many people justice. Does the Minister agree that possible small savings in her Department, which are far outweighed by additional costs for other departments including the police, social services and the probation service, will not lead to efficiency and will not save public money? Does she agree that she should produce guidance for MCCs on these matters, and that that guidance should be made available to the public?
§ Jane KennedyThe hon. Gentleman should draw breath for a moment and bear it in mind that any decisions on magistrates courts, their location and the services they provide are taken by local magistrates on magistrates courts committees, not by central Government. Such decisions are for local determination; any savings that might occur are for the local magistrates court committee to decide—as are the courts and their location. The central council of magistrates courts committees has produced a good practice guide for magistrates courts committees that are considering their accommodation. Both the Lord Chancellor's Department and Her Majesty's magistrates courts inspectorate endorse that guidance. There is no statutory duty to consult the public on, for example, 820 proposed courthouse closures, but magistrates courts committees are encouraged to consult more widely than required by statute; in fact, they all do.
§ Mr. Barry Jones (Alyn and Deeside)Is my hon. Friend absolutely sure that magistrates courts committees listen to the views of the grass roots? There is some doubt about that in north Wales. Is it right that the chairman of the magistrates courts committee in north Wales should also be the chairman of the North Wales police authority?
§ Jane KennedyAgain, those issues are for local determination. It is important that the House bear in mind the fact that proposals by magistrates courts committees generally reflect the aim and expectation that services and facilities offered to all court users are brought up to the standard that we expect and require in the 21st century. Often, older courthouses lack facilities that are in keeping with modern standards.
§ Mr. Nick Hawkins (Surrey Heath)Does the Minister not recognise that, however disingenuously she reads out her ministerial brief, saying "It's nothing to do with us or the Government that courthouses are closing", local people in our constituencies want to keep their courts open? It would be far better and far closer to the interests of the people served by those courts for rural courts to stay open, even though their facilities might not be of the highest standard. Undoubtedly, all those closures are happening under her Government's guidelines, which, as we are all aware, are Treasury driven. Whatever she says, there is no way of hiding the real truth from those who are suffering from such court closures.
§ Jane KennedyWhether or not I was disingenuous is for the House to decide—the hon. Gentleman is as gracious as ever. However, most of the magistrates courts that have closed so far have been courts that magistrates courts committees no longer felt able to justify—either because the replacement of substandard facilities was needed or because they might have been satellite courts. For example, they might have been sited in local council chambers that severely lacked the necessary facilities.
I repeat that I shall always support changes that lead to the provision of a better and more efficient service for court users.