Child Support Agency (Hansard, 3 April 2000)

§ 13. Mr. Simon Burns (West Chelmsford)
If he will make a statement on the reform of the Child Support Agency. [R][115875]

§ 17. Mr. Desmond Swayne (New Forest, West)
If he will set out a timetable for implementing the reforms of the Child Support Agency currently before the House. [115881]

§ 19. Mr. Michael Fabricant (Lichfield)
If he will make a statement about the timetable for the implementation of his proposed changes to the Child Support Agency. [115883]

§ The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Social Security (Angela Eagle)
We are on course to introduce the new system for new cases by April 2002.

§ Mr. Burns
Does the Minister realise that the possible attractions of a simplified child support system will be undermined by the creation of a new injustice, owing to 622 the system's potential rigidity? Does she accept that, in places such as Chelmsford, the home counties and London, the costs of travelling to work and housing are significantly higher than in other parts of the country? Will the Minister consider changing the variations to take into account housing and travel-to-work costs, so as not to undermine the improvement of the system through simplified methodology?

§ Angela Eagle
No; we believe that one has to choose between the complex system, which includes the departure scheme and the hundred bits of information that have to be gathered before an assessment can be made, and a simple system which can be easily administered and whereby an assessment can be made in weeks instead of the months that it currently takes. The hon. Gentleman's proposal would risk a reintroduction of all the complications of the current system and of making child support reform ineffective.

§ Mr. Swayne
Because there is no means of delivering payments directly to the child, an impression may grow that the absent parent is subsidising the life style of the parent with care. If the absent parent's income is modest and that of the parent with care relatively high, that may give rise to a burning sense of grievance which will undermine compliance. What plans has the Minister to address that problem?

§ Angela Eagle
Fewer than 200 parents with care in the current child support case load earn more than £500 a week so the hon. Gentleman is worried about something that will affect almost nobody. Nearly 700,000 parents with care have no income at all, although they look after the children. We have to put the system right so that we can help to end child poverty; and we know that up to 1 million children will gain from the reforms.

§ Mr. Fabricant
How can the Minister guarantee that she will not be blown off course? She well knows that there have been continual computer problems in her Department. Indeed, the Minister of State blamed not only the previous Government, as this Government always seem to do, but the computers. Is she not aware that there have been problems with the NIRS2 programme? Is she not aware, either, that there have been problems with making winter fuel payments? Those are all computer problems. When will she accept that bad workmen always blame their tools—or computers in this case—and when will the Government accept the computer maxim "garbage in, garbage out"?

§ Angela Eagle
That was the biggest pile of garbage that I have heard for a long time, and the hon. Gentleman should consider the legacy that his Government left us. When the Child Support Agency was introduced, they were to have a bespoke, specially designed computer system, but they decided it was too expensive. They bought a cheap, off-the-shelf system from Florida that cannot even recognise national insurance numbers. It cannot do a whole load of other things—I shall not bore the House with them—and it is a miracle that any child support has been collected with the pile of rubbish bought by the Conservative party.

§ Ms Sandra Osborne (Ayr)
I welcome the reform of the CSA, which we all know is much needed, but how 623 will the Minister ensure that parents with care can opt out of child support action when there is a risk of domestic violence?

§ Angela Eagle
The "good cause" parts of the new Bill will ensure that child support does not have to be pursued if a parent with care has any worries that she will be subject to violent threat by a violent partner. However, I can tell my hon. Friend that 70 per cent. of parents with care were trying to opt out of pursuing the non-resident parent for maintenance when we inherited the CSA from the Conservative party. We have got that down to 15 per cent. by better working with the Benefits Agency and the CSA to reassure women that they will get the money.
Under the new scheme, there will be a positive incentive for both the non-resident parent and the parent with care to pay. The child maintenance premium will ensure that £10 extra goes to the family looking after the child, and the non-resident parent will be well aware that his money supports his child and does not go back to the Treasury.

§ Mr. Peter L. Pike (Burnley)
My hon. Friend will know that there are a wide variety of problems with the CSA. Can she give some idea of when those who are already in the CSA system will have their assessments re-examined and brought into line with the new system?

§ Angela Eagle
The transition is one of the most difficult parts of the reform for everybody to organise. We estimate that there will be 1 million cases to transfer by the time the new system is introduced, in 2002. That will be done in a timely fashion, but people will have to bear with us. It cannot be done in a great big bang, but we shall ensure that the transition is as brief as possible.

§ Mr. Desmond Browne (Kilmarnock and Loudoun)
Will my hon. Friend resist the temptation to introduce any more complexity? Many hundreds of thousands of women out there are being defeated in their child maintenance claims by men—absent parents—who have reconstructed their financial circumstances to suit the departures and complications that the previous Government put into the system.

§ Angela Eagle
I wholeheartedly agree with my hon. Friend. That is why I resisted the suggestions of the hon. Member for West Chelmsford (Mr. Burns).

§ Mr. Eric Pickles (Brentwood and Ongar)
With respect, surely that answer is wrong. The Minister has repeated four times that the simplified system will make matters better. Does she not understand that there will be a great deal of argument over the income of the non-resident parent, especially the calculation of his net income? Will she answer the question that hon. Members from both sides of the House posed to her last Wednesday, but which she refused to answer? Will she give an undertaking that if, in making those calculations, the Child Support Agency makes a mistake—through no fault of the non-resident parent—the CSA will not look to the non-resident parent for backdated payments?

§ Angela Eagle
We hope that the new system will make maintenance calculations in four to six weeks, rather than the six months that it currently takes, so there will be a 624 lot fewer problems with arrears. The problem that the hon. Gentleman fears should not arise. We have a clear formula for establishing net income, and it should be much simpler to work with.